Do Not Touch

[desiredbard]

Thank you like DRBILL I'm a cold water diver loads of rock and kelp and that hands off is not always as practical there. But that talk about what and where is axactly what I want.

Of course you dont go around breaking off coral on purpose and of course you notify other divers if they got something dragging.
But not touching can be just as difficult.

I learned a little trick from the DM that warned me about the puffer on that boat, and told his collegue off:

The day after we had a dive where I spotted this giant grouper following us around , viz was quite poor due to wind and rain the night before, and though the fish spotted him he had not spotted the grouper yest.
It seemed my dm and this fish were befriended. It went even that far that any time the DM wanted to point something out the bloody fish would shove in between. the jelous bstrd The thing kept nudging him and wanted to be petted.

Surprised at this I asked how and why. He never fed or feeds the fish he never touched the fish untill it started touching him he told me.
Now the trick is fish are curious and he told me what to do/ how this happened. I tried this and it kind of worked. Probably with more dives at the same site I would be able to do the same thing with a different giant grouper.

This to me seems simmilar to some dogfishes on the eastcoast of Ireland
And a giant grouper being nose to nose with you makes a brilliant photo. And you are not hurting the fish, still you would could considder this wrong because the next diver might have a different attitude.

This is actually in my opinion a good DM not to say brilliant. His collegue however.... How are you to know beforehand that what your DM shows you is completely wrong...

DM puffing puffer and handling it: WRONG
DM befriending grouper who wont take no for an answer: diferent case

What I want to know is where and with wich fishes does a DM defo overstep that thin line.

And is ther somebody here now who can answer this

PS
That grouper was by the way not stupid. Last dive I had on that site I spotted the grouper but he would not come near us: diff DM with us

 

[Diver Dennis]

Palau.

 

[friscuba]

Back to the touching percentage... I figure it's maybe in the 90's for accidental touching, probably more like 10% or less for purposeful touching of critters.... funny thing, those who purposefully touch tend to think everyone does.

 

[agilis]

Amazon, those crabs are out there parading around because they want you to pick them up. The crabs are likely evading a hungry octopus, and hoping that the suckerarmed brute will be deceived into thinking that you are a protective big crab .

Is your avatar an Orange Winged Amazon? Actually, "Agilis" is taken from the specific name "Amazona agilis", the Jamaican Black Billed parrot. One of these small but feisty Amazons has been living with me since a couple of Maroons from Quickstep felled its nesting tree, almost 30 years ago. This is the longest relationship I've ever had.

 

[IceIce]

I touched in the past but I'm not proud about that.
I have three times more than your list about dangerous animals, but regardless they are dangerous to me or not, I try not to do touching -at all- in the future.

Far, very far, I can understand your idea but Crimson gave good and hard study case for why it's not;

The bottom line is that you are not suppose to touch – so don’t promote the behavior. Just because an undeterminable percentage of the population does it doesn’t make it right or acceptable. A percentage of the population also molest children – should we make a list of the children with blackbelt training so the scumbags know who to stay away from ?

 

[LSDeep]

without reading all the posts over the last endless pages - i hope for everybody who thinks it is okay to tamper with / molest / etc marinelife to get friggin hurt at one point. i wouldnt go as far as enjoying your (very unlikely) reports of a boxjellyfish or blue ringed octopus encounter (well it would be THE lesson for a lifetime), but phuk around with stuff you dont know or cant comprehend - jeez get hurt and learn the hard way. even a little more common, take the tackle with a nurseshark to get him moving - mostly he will swimm away, enjoy him clamped to your arm .
i learned some of it the hard way - with the so called "pets" of dc's i worked for. considered a "harmless" pet eel because it "sees" divers every other day and is around doesnt make a 6ft+ moray eel predictable or a shark or anything else.
the simple but irresistably broken rule of "take pictures, leave bubbles" makes quite some sense.

 

[desiredbard]

Its not about the diver getting hurt, its about DM's showing thing you can doe but defo should not do. A dm wont shouw you to handle a lionfish or simmilar.

In this case a harmless boxfish got manhandled.
I would rather have learned b4hand then afterwards... but how is one supposed to know.

And here I go again I asked this several times
I know the rule take pictures leave bubbles is nice but even then you are diisturbing a system with your presence.

And every animal is an animal, just that its used to people does not make any animal predictable.

All I want is a simple short or long list of fish that are often manhandled by lets say DM's and which could result in serious consequences for the fish. And will enable a newby to say no. If a DM wants to tickle a moray under its chin...so be it.

(4 bloody pages so far and not an answer yet, guess what I am thinking right now)

All i want is;

- dont puff a puffer
- dont pierce the sacks parotfish make for themselves

and thats about the extent I know (appart from the fishes dangerous to me but that does not matter)

 

[Furypickles]

I do agree with the dangerous critter, you'll find that out the hard way.
A puffer would not be considered dangerous though, I mean Hamas tactics do not scare a diver of.

Now the point of this post is not to encourage people to touch.... the point is to defo discourage to touch certain critters. I know some annoying pokers as well who i'd loved to get aquainted with a giant moray instead of a conger. (Dropping some boulder s on a small conger just because he wont show enough, makes me abort my dive and force the "buddy" to surface as well!!)

The thing is: some of us do touch, and will touch. But most of us not with an intention to harm or endanger. Dont give me any lectures with "you endanger averything if you interfere" cause bluntly I am not interested in that. (btw you can puf a fish without touching as well)

I am interested in a list of defenceless critters with a nice photo/cutenes factor like the formentioned puffer, that could be harmed out of ignorance.

Sure you can lure a moray/conger with your finger. If your fast and are not a professional pianist, like me. I know its waiting for the eel thats faster than me Tipping the tail of a bluespotted ray to make him turn or move to a better shot is completely at my own risk

Now if you leave this b"etter than thou attitude" somewhere far from your keyboard, and help with this, some divers might actually get some useful information. Again: he point of this post is not to encourage people to touch.... the point is to defo discourage to touch certain critters cause they are defenceless.

If you want a defenceless critter with a nice photo/cuteness factor dress your dog up in doll clothes!!! I have had DM in Honduras and Costra Rica try to get me to touch sea life animals etc. So i guess if thats okay for you , you don't have a problem with a shark just checking you out? By the way when they bite your arm or leg they are not usually hungry, its the way they mate by biteing the dorsal fin of the femal shark to hold her in place A puffer fish puffs up because it is afraid and that's its defence mechanism, just like an octopus will ink ( yes seen this felt sorry for the little "cute" guys.) Just like your reaction when the shark or other creature desides to check you out and gets a little too close. We are visitors underwater and should take pictures and leave bubbles!!!! Not set up the picture to suit our need for a cute moray!!!! Just like those new Kittens in a glass that seem to be the rage. We should be preserving the ecosystems not adding to their demise!!!! ( Just my view no offense I am sure you are a real nice person) Anyway dont ruin it for the 99.9% of divers that are there to enjoy and experiance the real factor not some show on T.V. that is set up to appear cute!!!

 

[fishb0y]

Sigh... Never mind... not worth getting into this arguement again...

 

[desiredbard]

:mooner: