Do not ever say you are a rescue diver

[Edward3c]

You never have to answer an inappropriate question, or a question you don't wish to answer.

A better thing to do, is just answer the question they should have asked. "What's your highest certification level?" "This is a 100ft dive? I've taken Advanced Open Water."

Now, if they're really insistent, which would be weird, "No, that's not what I asked, what's your highest certification?" To which you ask, "why do you need that information?"

Highest qualification. Unless the operator is familier with all certifying agencies its a meaningless question.

Diving qualification, I'm a BSAC Advanced Diver - there is no PADI equivalent
Instructor qualification, I'm a BSAC Advanced Instructor – the nearest PADI equivalent is instructor trainer, but I’m not. It just means I can teach the BSAC Advanced Diver grade.

The situation I cites in post 53 came about because the front desk recorded my qualification as AI. On the boat the crew assumed I was a PADI Assistant Instructor. The fact I was wearing a polo shirt with BSAC on it didn’t register.

 

[Centrals]

As long as the diver is qualified to do that particular dive then "highest qualification" has NO meaning to anyone.
As for the comment made by the operator afterward? He/she would be embarrassed to hear what I would had said in front of everyone.
What is the name of that dive shop?

 

[scubaozy]

You never have to answer an inappropriate question, or a question you don't wish to answer.

A better thing to do, is just answer the question they should have asked. "What's your highest certification level?" "This is a 100ft dive? I've taken Advanced Open Water."

Now, if they're really insistent, which would be weird, "No, that's not what I asked, what's your highest certification?" To which you ask, "why do you need that information?"

This is not how things normally develop. Often times, you need to inform in advance basic information about your cert and experience level and you do not sign up for a single dive to 100ft but series of dives. My point is, if I conceal my level and my buddy has a fatal accident, wouldn't the judge raise an eyebrow?
From dive op perspective this is simple, they ask you to sign liability release and some sort of statement that you will comply with good diving practices and that is it. Thus, responsibility is pushed to you as the buddy, whether you are aowd or dm. They are only interested in your information for planning purposes and they must check whether you are qualified and most cases owd + nitrox tickets will be enough.

 

[Wibble]

It isn't often you hear someone introduce themselves as a rescue diver, trotting out that particular certification is being their highest level. In fact, I have only seen it once, and I know of another case by reputation.

1. More than 20 years ago, I was diving in Cozumel. I was then just AOW. A middle aged man got on the boat with his beautiful new, young wife. She told the DM she was newly certified and on her first dive. Her husband told the rest of us on the boat that we were in good hands with him on the dive, because he was a rescue diver. He even got out his card and showed us. (I did not recognize the card and do not recall the agency--it was not PADI.) His wife turned out to be a pretty good diver, and she had zero problems. On the other hand, he was one of he worst divers I have seen in my life. The DM literally held his hand on the dives.
2. A couple years later, almost the same thing happened in Australia. A newlywed American couple boarded a liveaboard dive boat in Australia. When the boat crew announced that they would do a mandatory checkout dive, the husband, Gabe Watson, said they did not need one. Although his wife, Tina, was newly certified (NASDS), he was a NASDS-certified rescue diver, so he could take care of her. Incredibly, the liveaboard crew (Mike Ball) agreed to let them dive without the mandatory checkout dive. She turned out to be incompetent and almost immediately had problems, sinking uncontrollably. He tried to save her, but his attempts were so incompetent that some people assumed he had intentionally killed her. It eventually turned out that, no, he was really just that incompetent, with barely more experience than his wife.

So that is not a very big sample, but it does make me wonder. I wonder in general about people who feel a need to announce any kind of advanced certification on a recreational dive boat (which I have not seen often), and I suspect they are trying to convince themselves that they can do the dive, because they have doubts about it themselves.

Any competent diver would never disagree with a checkout dive. Simply complaining about it raises competence questions.

A checkout dive gives you the ability to check out the DiveMasters who will be annoying you during the diving


Recently had a holiday in a warm water location where they needed to see my cards. Decided that Rescue Diver was probably best as the technical qualifications wouldn't be recognised. Obviously not a DiveMaster as I've not passed the Rattle and Quacker For Maximum Annoyance speciality course which their DMs had obviously enjoyed and scored 100%.

 

[chillyinCanada]

So what?

Where in the DM certification does it say that a DM must have a certain SAC rate or better? Where does it say that a DM (who may have been doing multiple dives daily for weeks) cannot get cold?

Sure, we want the dive leader to be "better" than us in terms of air consumption, cold tolerance, navigation, etc., but they are human beings.

Remember that they are more properly "dive guides" than "dm = dive master".

 

[chillyinCanada]

That has been discussed countless times on ScubaBoard during the 18 years I have been a participant. I have yet to see anyone cite any example in which someone got in any legal trouble simply because they happened to be on the boat when an incident happened, regardless of their certification status. Besides, if an attorney were so inclined, it would not be hard to find your true certification status.

In my previous post, I was differentiating between what card you show to the operator and what you announce to the people on the boat. Most people don't say a word on the boat. I wonder about those who feel a need to do so.

An example I have cited often is the time I was on a very large boat, about 25 people, on the main island of Hawai'i. We had been divided into three groups before we got onto the boat. Before we left harbor, a man pulled my group together and told us we had been selected to dive together because we all had more dives than the DM trainee who would lead the dive. We were told the DM was mostly just learning the site, and we could pretty much do what we wanted, as long as we stayed near. Our group splashed first and got back on the boat last, having had a great dive. I wondered how many highly certified divers had been in the beginner groups because they had fooled the operator by showing a low level card.

I dived in Cozumel this past June with a couple of friends. The dive operator had a number of boats. The three of us spent that week on a boat with highly experienced divers, and we did some great sites not normally dived by the madding crowd. In fact, we only saw other dive groups on a couple of dives. Again, that is because they knew we were not run of the mill divers.

So, if you want to be sure to do all your dives with the beginner groups, by all means show a beginner C-card.

Dive count is generally considered too.

It only takes one shake out dive to determine which group of divers one belongs in.

Further, it's been my experience that in the places I seek out to dive, it is rare to have beginner divers there. But when they are, they are in a different group with different guide(s) by the second day.

 

[chillyinCanada]

I would say that on the vast majority of the dives I have taken in exotic locations over the decades, following a DM was the only option.

More like the guide is in the water with you and you with them. They'll point out wonderful critters and show off the dive site.

After they know how you dive, there's generally no leash other than stay within sight.

 

[hedonist222]

3.) Not everyone took the course to become 'Scuba-Lifeguard' and not everyone does anything to stay fresh on the content. If someone got Rescue Diver certified over a decade ago, how much he/she retains now may vary widely?

Someone who took the course mainly to up their mindfulness and panic-resistance game may not remember the preferred extraction techniques for unresponsive buddies at boat or varied shore environs, CPR, etc...

Exactly.
I became a rescue diver in 2007. That was fifteen years ago.
Every few years I'll open the course literature to brush up.

 

[tursiops]

3.) Not everyone took the course to become 'Scuba-Lifeguard' and not everyone does anything to stay fresh on the content. If someone got Rescue Diver certified over a decade ago, how much he/she retains now may vary widely?

Someone who took the course mainly to up their mindfulness and panic-resistance game may not remember the preferred extraction techniques for unresponsive buddies at boat or varied shore environs, CPR, etc...

I became a rescue diver in 2007. That was fifteen years ago.
Every few years I'll open the course literature to brush up.

When I was actively teaching a lot of Rescue classes, for which you need assistants to be gear handlers, victims, "bystanders," etc, I would always invite previous students to be the helpers. It was a useful refresher for them.

 

[RobPNW]

Not sure if anyone else does this but having about a half full wing or BC is part of my buddy pre dive checks.