Do not ever say you are a rescue diver

[Searcaigh]

Wonder how many are zero to hero.

Very few usually, and in general better divers than the foreign white people that they are leading.

 

[Blackcrusader]

So what? Where in the DM certification does it say that a DM must have a certain SAC rate or better? Where does it say that a DM (who may have been doing multiple dives daily for weeks) cannot get cold?
Sure, we want the dive leader to be "better" than us in terms of air consumption, cold tolerance, navigation, etc., but they are human beings.

I never claimed a DM needed to have a certain sac rate or be better than other divers on air. You think too much.
In fact tomorrow I am doing a wreck dive with the instructor owner of the dive center and he is not as good on air as I am. We've done many dives together over the past several years. We are being joined by a Korean lass who is very good on air.
I don't expect others to be better than I am on cold tolerance.
I dive in 22c water with shorts and a T shirt. It is a wee bit chilly but I get by.

Not many dives here need navigation as they are done along reef walls that drop 60m or more to the sea bed.

 

[boulderjohn]

It isn't often you hear someone introduce themselves as a rescue diver, trotting out that particular certification is being their highest level. In fact, I have only seen it once, and I know of another case by reputation.

1. More than 20 years ago, I was diving in Cozumel. I was then just AOW. A middle aged man got on the boat with his beautiful new, young wife. She told the DM she was newly certified and on her first dive. Her husband told the rest of us on the boat that we were in good hands with him on the dive, because he was a rescue diver. He even got out his card and showed us. (I did not recognize the card and do not recall the agency--it was not PADI.) His wife turned out to be a pretty good diver, and she had zero problems. On the other hand, he was one of he worst divers I have seen in my life. The DM literally held his hand on the dives.
2. A couple years later, almost the same thing happened in Australia. A newlywed American couple boarded a liveaboard dive boat in Australia. When the boat crew announced that they would do a mandatory checkout dive, the husband, Gabe Watson, said they did not need one. Although his wife, Tina, was newly certified (NASDS), he was a NASDS-certified rescue diver, so he could take care of her. Incredibly, the liveaboard crew (Mike Ball) agreed to let them dive without the mandatory checkout dive. She turned out to be incompetent and almost immediately had problems, sinking uncontrollably. He tried to save her, but his attempts were so incompetent that some people assumed he had intentionally killed her. It eventually turned out that, no, he was really just that incompetent, with barely more experience than his wife.

So that is not a very big sample, but it does make me wonder. I wonder in general about people who feel a need to announce any kind of advanced certification on a recreational dive boat (which I have not seen often), and I suspect they are trying to convince themselves that they can do the dive, because they have doubts about it themselves.

 

[DirtFish]

As a former Fire Dept. rescue diver for 30 years, we were always told to never mention our certification level when recreational diving due to legal repercussions, (thank you lawyers). Better to dig out the old AOW card keep your mouth shut and smile. You better believe that if someone dies on the boat the lawyers will investigate everyone's cert level and you will be grilled on why you didn't save their life since you had the training, (again, thank you lawyers ).

 

[tursiops]

It isn't often you hear someone introduce themselves as a rescue diver, trotting out that particular certification is being their highest level. In fact, I have only seen it once, and I know of another case by reputation.

1. More than 20 years ago, I was diving in Cozumel. I was then just AOW. A middle aged man got on the boat with his beautiful new, young wife. She told the DM she was newly certified and on her first dive. Her husband told the rest of us on the boat that we were in good hands with him on the dive, because he was a rescue diver. He even got out his card and showed us. (I did not recognize the card and do not recall the agency--it was not PADI.) His wife turned out to be a pretty good diver, and she had zero problems. On the other hand, he was one of he worst divers I have seen in my life. The DM literally held his hand on the dives.
2. A couple years later, almost the same thing happened in Australia. A newlywed American couple boarded a liveaboard dive boat in Australia. When the boat crew announced that they would do a mandatory checkout dive, the husband, Gabe Watson, said they did not need one. Although his wife, Tina, was newly certified (NASDS), he was a NASDS-certified rescue diver, so he could take care of her. Incredibly, the liveaboard crew (Mike Ball) agreed to let them dive without the mandatory checkout dive. She turned out to be incompetent and almost immediately had problems, sinking uncontrollably. He tried to save her, but his attempts were so incompetent that some people assumed he had intentionally killed her. It eventually turned out that, no, he was really just that incompetent, with barely more experience than his wife.

So that is not a very big sample, but it does make me wonder. I wonder in general about people who feel a need to announce any kind of advanced certification on a recreational dive boat (which I have not seen often), and I suspect they are trying to convince themselves that they can do the dive, because they have doubts about it themselves.

I was in line to check in at the diveshop in Bonaire a few years ago. The guy in front of me was waving a stack of cards, saying, "What do you want? Here is Full Cave, here is Adv Trimix...?" I looked at the lady behind the counter and she gave me an eye-roll.

 

[Searcaigh]

In SE Asia I don't usually use the term DM, as they are more akin to Dive Guides, and for me their purpose is twofold

1. They know the dive sites, where to enter and exit and navigate the reef.
2. They find critters for me to photograph.

 

[tursiops]

As a former Fire Dept. rescue diver for 30 years, we were always told to never mention our certification level when recreational diving due to legal repercussions, (thank you lawyers). Better to dig out the old AOW card keep your mouth shut and smile. You better believe that if someone dies on the boat the lawyers will investigate everyone's cert level and you will be grilled on why you didn't save their life since you had the training, (again, thank you lawyers ).

So, if it is going to found out anyway that you have extra training and certification, why hide it when you check in?
The higher certs often get a better seat on the boat, put with better divers, and given better dive guides.

 

[boulderjohn]

As a former Fire Dept. rescue diver for 30 years, we were always told to never mention our certification level when recreational diving due to legal repercussions, (thank you lawyers). Better to dig out the old AOW card keep your mouth shut and smile. You better believe that if someone dies on the boat the lawyers will investigate everyone's cert level and you will be grilled on why you didn't save their life since you had the training, (again, thank you lawyers ).

That has been discussed countless times on ScubaBoard during the 18 years I have been a participant. I have yet to see anyone cite any example in which someone got in any legal trouble simply because they happened to be on the boat when an incident happened, regardless of their certification status. Besides, if an attorney were so inclined, it would not be hard to find your true certification status.

In my previous post, I was differentiating between what card you show to the operator and what you announce to the people on the boat. Most people don't say a word on the boat. I wonder about those who feel a need to do so.

An example I have cited often is the time I was on a very large boat, about 25 people, on the main island of Hawai'i. We had been divided into three groups before we got onto the boat. Before we left harbor, a man pulled my group together and told us we had been selected to dive together because we all had more dives than the DM trainee who would lead the dive. We were told the DM was mostly just learning the site, and we could pretty much do what we wanted, as long as we stayed near. Our group splashed first and got back on the boat last, having had a great dive. I wondered how many highly certified divers had been in the beginner groups because they had fooled the operator by showing a low level card.

I dived in Cozumel this past June with a couple of friends. The dive operator had a number of boats. The three of us spent that week on a boat with highly experienced divers, and we did some great sites not normally dived by the madding crowd. In fact, we only saw other dive groups on a couple of dives. Again, that is because they knew we were not run of the mill divers.

So, if you want to be sure to do all your dives with the beginner groups, by all means show a beginner C-card.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

I was surfing at Sandbridge Beach near Virginia Beach during a hurricane. I took a break and strolled into the local convenient store wearing a red lifeguard rain jacket.

"Are you a lifeguard?" a woman behind me asked. I said I was. "Are you one of the lifeguards who rescued us yesterday?" I told her I was not. She went on to tell me that she was a member of the local dive rescue team. They responded to an emergency and all four members of their team got in trouble. A few lifeguards from VBLS swam out to rescue them. The dive team had been dispatched to a surface rescue because they had a boat. In the end, lifeguards had to rescue the rescuers and the victims.

I've made three rescues of public safety divers myself (2 volunteer fire rescue divers ran OOG, panicked, and surfaced, and 1 near-drowning of a major metro SWAT officer/diver due to an overweighted drysuit).

Even the "professionals" can get into trouble. The term "rescue diver" is considered to be a misnomer in the sport by some because it implies something like lifeguard status. Lifeguard courses are also being dumbed down to the point there is something called "shallow water lifeguard."

The industry should teach buddy assist at the open water level and rescue skills expected of buddies at the AOW level without the flourish of a C-card. For a true rescue diver course, the standards should require students first pass an old-fashioned Red Cross advanced lifesaving type course combined with dive rescue skills. The dive count needs to be higher or the skills sharper than current standards. Any rescue diver who wants to stay rescue-ready should keep a current open water lifeguard certification such as Red Cross Waterfront Lifeguard, keep current DAN, PADI or NAUI (or equivalent) CPR, First Aid, AED, O2 Administration, Marine Life Injuries and Wilderness First Aid certifications, practice rescue skills bi-annually at least, and maintain a Cooper Fitness Test level of "good."

 

[NorCalDM]

I introduce myself with my name not cert level your information is on the paperwork you filled out so they know. The talking and boasting ends as soon as your head goes under the water and it's pretty easy to tell what kind of diver you are in about 30 seconds. When I'm on vacation, I'm on vacation and just another paying customer.