Do not ever say you are a rescue diver

[kinoons]

Exactly. And having been involved in the preparation of official recommendations from professional organizations, I will tell you that there is a lot of concern about the limits of applicability. Because you are putting the stamp of the organization's authority on the document, you want to be sure that it is only used in the situation for which it was designed.

One of the published indications for emergency thoracotomy is cardiorespiratory arrest, and this procedure has a survival rate of up to 60% in some series. Nevertheless, it is not appropriate for an unresponsive diver in the water. Context matters.

Very much so. While cardiopulmonary arrest is an indication for open thoracotomy, I can count on one hand the number of chests I’ve seen cracked in my ED in the last 10 years.

Admittedly I work in community hospitals, not trauma centers, but just because you can open a chest doesn’t mean we will. When a resuscitation becomes futile no additional interventions will make one lick of difference.

Unfortunately that futility sets in really quickly - especially in out of hospital arrests, even more so when ALS providers are not quickly (less than 10 minutes) available.

Way back at the beginning of my medical career (late 90s) I was taught the arrest you prevent is the arrest you save. In the last 20+ years not much of that has changed.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

I’ve not read the whole thread, but a question on the original topic. Why would you ever tell a dive center you’re a rescue diver? There’s not a single dive I can think of that requires the cert. It’s a great course & highly recommended for sure, but as a cert, it’s only a stepping stone to more advanced certs such as DM/Inst or Master Diver. I can’t fathom why I’d ever show that card (if I could even find it).

 

[Searcaigh]

I’ve not read the whole thread, but a question on the original topic. Why would you ever tell a dive center you’re a rescue diver? There’s not a single dive I can think of that requires the cert. It’s a great course & highly recommended for sure, but as a cert, it’s only a stepping stone to more advanced certs such as DM/Inst or Master Diver. I can’t fathom why I’d ever show that card (if I could even find it).

The key point is that dive centres use your skill level to assess what type of diver you may be in order to buddy you with someone of a similar skill as they don't know how good or bad of a diver you really are.

If you care to read through the thread you will find responses to that effect.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

The key point is that dive centres use your skill level to assess what type of diver you may be in order to buddy you with someone of a similar skill as they don't know how good or bad of a diver you really are.

If you care to read through the thread you will find responses to that effect.

Yea, I get it. I read enough of the thread to get that point. I'm not going to read the ENTIRE thread as there are MANY off topic subthreads going.

Just adding another vote to the "I never show my rescue card" column. I don't even think I still have it to show in the first place.

No card is going to show how "good or bad" of a diver I am. If I'm diving with a new center, to them I'm a certified diver. That's all I, or they, really care about. If it is a deep dive or a nitrox dive or a tech dive, I show the adequate cert. Other than that, let's just go dive and you'll see quickly enough I know what the heck I'm doing.

 

[Nemrod]

If you start the dive positively buoyant with an empty BC at the surface, how do you hold your safety stop after you have breathed down your tank at the end of the dive? Especially if warm water diving, where you have very little neoprene to compress much in 15-20ft to the stop.

It is not a problem for me, again, and not being argumentative at all, many of us learned to dive before we had BCs. To this day, I consider them largely a crutch for sport diving and they are not a life jacket or USCG approved flotation device. I do use my BC (wings) but not in the gross way that is now common practice. Yes, I will be slightly buoyant at the end of the dive but not enough that I cannot hold my stop.

In this case, since you want to know a little about how to dive sans BC or use your BC minimally let me go through it, off subject, a little bit. I am talking fairly warm water so to make it easy using a 3mm suit (heavier suits are entirely possible) and I have to get my weighting spot on (and I do not use negative steels, aluminum 63, 80, steel 72s are easiest). At the start of a dive my wetsuit will not have crushed yet and it will have trapped air but my cylinder is full and at it's most negative to assist my descent. I SWIM down. Once at depth and if needed now that I have the luxury of a wing I will add a few puffs of air because now my suit has compressed and is fully flooded and I can SWIM around. Pre BC we used our lungs as a BC to augment buoyancy and would upon first reaching bottom depth be slightly negative. In olden times we might grab a rock if we got our weighting wrong near the end of the dive . When it is time to end the dive my suit is fully compressed and no trapped air but my cylinder is at it's lightest to assist my ascent, I SWIM up. Let me remind you, a safety stop is optional, yes, it is optional. But a good practice and I am fully capable of holding a stop at 15 or 20 feet. And I am not doing deco or technical diving in this manner.

I will add, the exposure suits we have today sort of make life difficult. They are not at all like the nitrogen blown Rubatex (USA) suits I had. Rubatex suits did not crush completely or fill with water inside the material like the foam rubber suits we have now. There have been many threads on diving without a BC and how to. There are limitations and equipment and suit configurations that need to be understood. I am not even going to try and do such a no BC dive with twin tanks, isolation manifold, three stages, a 7mm suit and whatever else we can throw in the soup. That is a different subject and there is a Technical forum for that sort of diving which this is not.

James

 

[Wants2divemore]

but as a cert, it’s only a stepping stone to more advanced certs such as DM/Inst or Master Diver. I can’t fathom why I’d ever show that card (if I could even find it).

I just took the Rescue Diver course earlier this month as a way to be a better diver and better dive buddy. I have no desire for DM or instructor. I imagine there are others who feel the same way.

 

[L13]

It is not a problem for me, again, and not being argumentative at all, many of us learned to dive before we had BCs. To this day, I consider them largely a crutch for sport diving and they are not a life jacket or USCG approved flotation device. I do use my BC (wings) but not in the gross way that is now common practice. Yes, I will be slightly buoyant at the end of the dive but not enough that I cannot hold my stop.

Thanks for explaining! I wasn't being argumentative, just trying to understand. The average human lungs are enough BC for the air breathed from a single AL-80, but by the time you add in suit compression and other variables it's a little harder to find the perfect weighting that isn't to little at the start of the dive to much at depth and too little at a stop.

I like my BC crutch, but I'm working on perfecting my ability to rely on it less. For a lot of the dives I do I'm neutral at my stop with no air in my BC, but several pounds negative at the start of the dive at the surface without air in my BC.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

I just took the Rescue Diver course earlier this month as a way to be a better diver and better dive buddy. I have no desire for DM or instructor. I imagine there are others who feel the same way.

Certainly. With a good instructor it’s a fantastic course. But as a certification card, it’s not one you need to show anybody apart from higher courses that require it. You take the course to become a better diver and a better buddy, not to provide a certification that you’re going to use to support any specific dive. Therefore, I see no need to show any dive op my rescue card.

Just my opinion. YMMV.

 

[Blackcrusader]

I just took the Rescue Diver course earlier this month as a way to be a better diver and better dive buddy. I have no desire for DM or instructor. I imagine there are others who feel the same way.

I am diving with a friend in Philippines atm. We have dived with the dive operation several times before.
I show my rescue and nitrox card and he brings his DM and nitrox. Another buddy I was just in Indonesia with shows his instructor card as many dive ops will give instructors an additional discount.
Certs have never been an issue for myself or friends. Often we are asked about numbers of dives done, 500 plus for my DM buddy, 1000 plus for my instructor buddy, 3000 plus for me. I've never been interested in doing a DM or instructor cert.
Tomorrow we are joined by an instructor with her partner who is rescue cert who we have known for several years.
We only show our cards when signing up at the dive center. Never had to mention cert level on a dive boat trip.

 

[pauldw]

I don’t think that divemasters want to know whether someone is a rescue diver so they can make that person responsible for doing rescues. I think divemasters want to get a feel for how experienced someone is. A diver who took open water a week before is probably a different kind of diver from someone who’s taken at least three classes, and had at least the minimum number of dives to take those, and has shown some interest in being a better diver by doing so.

No one has to help other people if they’re more interested in leading a selfish, tawdry life.

Also, ABC did give way to CAB for the average person trying to do CPR on an adult who dropped right in front of them. Not necessarily because CAB is the best way to do resuscitations in an ideal circumstance, but because in the circumstances that exist in real life, where there’s one person there, who has had skill decay, and may not want to do breaths anyway, starting with compressions fast and hard at least circulates blood that still has oxygen in it, which does some good while waiting for EMS to arrive. For drowning victims, their blood isn’t well oxygenated so this process isn’t the one. And even if it were, compressions are mighty difficult in the water.

Perhaps turning a tank around so the valve faces backward, aiming the victim at the nearest boat or shore, and bashing off the valve? No, that’s not it!