Do not ever say you are a rescue diver

[tursiops]

Here’s an observation about all of this.

The transcribed rescue cue card text that posted was actually TLDR. I responded generally, but I didn’t read that whole post. I guess I shouldn’t have done it as a quote reply because that implied that I was arguing (sorry, @tursiops ).

So if that protocol was too long and boring for me to bother reading in an online forum post, I probably wouldn’t remember the details when I need it 10 years after I get my rescue card!

What I posted was from the instructor slates.....as an aid to teaching.
(There are no equivalent student slates.)
What actually gets said by the instructor and remembered is something different. I'm asking for some words that do not overtly contradict PADI but are more informative and useful to the Rescue student.

 

[doctormike]

What I posted was from the instructor slates.....as an aid to teaching.
(There are no equivalent student slates.)
What actually gets said by the instructor and remembered is something different. I'm asking for some words that do not overtly contradict PADI but are more informative and useful to the Rescue student.

Gotcha! Thanks for the clarification.

How about this. Open the airway, give a breath or two every minute and get the diver out of the water.

 

[kinoons]

But would you say that rec Rescue training is useless?

I am not a rescue diver, so I cannot say with any first hand experience.

Any training on how to respond to a less than ideal situation is usually a good thing.

Even 20 years removed I can recall the basics of water rescue from my lifeguard experience. No doubt I’d be rusty, it would be ugly, but I believe I could accomplish the goal of getting an unresponsive person to the surface. I also recall how to get a panicking person to safety and how to escape them if they try to pull me down as well.

So I’d say that rescue diver courses are a good thing, but a realistic expectation on what the outcome of an unresponsive and pulseless diver in the water is needed.

On the other hand, if a rescue trained diver can intervene before a diver becomes unresponsive, that’s totally a win.

 

[scubaozy]

The concept I was trying to communicate was you don't have to answer a question you don't want to answer. It's better to answer the question that should have been asked, or say "none-of-your-business." I mean, what is your social-security number?


Are you really concealing anything important? What's the big deal if people don't know my bank account balance, what car I own, or what I had for breakfast? I'm not an attorney, but if you were in court over a fatality, I'd assume you'd have one who could offer you competent advice. However, an honest answer seems like a good one.

"Why didn't you tell them you were rescue certified?"
"I simply told the agency about my qualifications that were relevant to the dive. A rescue certification doesn't teach you how to dive at 100ft"

"Why didn't you say you were an instructor?"
"It wasn't relevant, I was on vacation, not acting as an instructor. It was a 100ft dive, so I told them I had taken an AOW course. "

If local law implies that an instructor has a particular role on a particular scenario, it does not matter whether you communicated it openly or you have given as little information as required. If you are an instructor and you did not fulfill your duty to act, you have done wrong. You will gain nothing by not being fully open.
IIRC, rd manual states that dealing with actual emergencies are to be left to the professionals. Whether you stated you are RD or not has absolutely no meaning, you will have same responsibilities as an owd or aowd.
I like my privacy, I don’t like talking about my self but I also answer well meaning questions openly.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Sure but it depends on the diver. I don't. Even in Bali where water temp was 22c this is what I wear.

View attachment 750816

And I'd be peeing like a racehorse if I was diving in 22 C water without exposure protection. I'm not sure if a 5 mil and a K-01 hood is enough.

If I were doing a tec dive on my rebreather, I'd want my dry suit.

Yes I am that much of a wimp when it comes to temperature and I'm not ashamed to admit it

 

[Ukmc]

Yeah, I wasn’t disagreeing with you or them. I was responding in general because there were other posts talking about how getting the victim to the boat was more important than anything else.

I wanted to stress a simple message that is far more likely to be recalled in an emergency than a complex training pathway. Open the airway and give a breath or two. The few seconds that takes away from water egress are definitely worth the trade off. So that’s my clear, simple recommendation. Complex emergency procedures are rarely remembered correctly, even by professionals with frequent recertification. That’s the reason why checklists are important (not applicable here).

Having watched many people desaturate in the OR during bronchoscopy, I can tell you that people with full lungs can hold a reasonable Sat for a minute or so once ventilation stops. But if ventilation stops from a point where oxygenation is marginal, the saturation drops like a rock.

Mike,
ABC has been changed CAB on the newest guidelines.
Your operating room example is not analagous and thus transferable for this scenario. Most of your patients in OR do not have cardiovascular collapse. Whereas, most of the adult CPR is due to circulatory problem (even if it started as respiratory issue). Thus, if you close to shore or boat, it is of utmost importance to get the victim to initiation of compressions and/or AED.
Two rescue breaths every 6 seconds while you are trying to tow a disabled victim in the water is very exhausting (it was the most physically challenging part of the rescue course for me), so the delay is not simply due to administered ventilations but also due to ensuing fatigue.
To avoid confusion, I would follow PADI advice and get diver on the hard surface ASAP if you are within 5 min.

 

[SlugLife]

If local law implies that an instructor has a particular role on a particular scenario, it does not matter whether you communicated it openly or you have given as little information as required. If you are an instructor and you did not fulfill your duty to act, you have done wrong. You will gain nothing by not being fully open.

The entire thread is about someone who has training, (i.e. instructor, rescue, etc) and is a customer on a dive boat. If you are a customer on a dive boat, you are not acting as an instructor. If you are an instructor and someone is injured in your class, that's another matter.

In the US, I am not aware of any such "duty to act." Sadly, the opposite is often true which I think is messed up. If you do act, you open yourself up to potential liability. A few places have "good Samaritan" laws, but most of the US does not.

 

[scubaozy]

The entire thread is about someone who has training, (i.e. instructor, rescue, etc) and is a customer on a dive boat. If you are a customer on a dive boat, you are not acting as an instructor. If you are an instructor and someone is injured in your class, that's another matter.

In the US, I am not aware of any such "duty to act." Sadly, the opposite is often true which I think is messed up. If you do act, you open yourself up to potential liability. A few places have "good Samaritan" laws, but most of the US does not.

Yes, I still do not understand why should I hide that I am instructor on a dive boat and diving as a customer, I also do not understand why someone who is rd, but instead says they are aowd? What is the target, what is being achieve?

 

[SlugLife]

Yes, I still do not understand why should I hide that I am instructor on a dive boat and diving as a customer, I also do not understand why someone who is rd, but instead says they are aowd? What is the target, what is being achieve?

Got it. I may have miscommunicated. My intent was advice to those who want to be low-key.

If you don't mind saying you are an instructor, have a bunch of certs, etc, then I think you should absolutely do that.

 

[Dody]

Yes Dody you are. You have said so yourself in previous threads.

I exactly remember that . It was ironic. To make the reading more entertaining. My wife took my hand in our first dive to 40 m and wrote: your wife depends on you blabla, be worthy or whatever. But I am really no macho. But the same way I would do it with my kids, less experienced friends or buddies, I feel I have a duty to watch them. Maybe others feel they have to watch me.