Do I need to get certified?

[Kevin Carlisle]

I think the difference is the wide differencein what we call a "wreck." In some cases, it is mere "wreckage," safe for anyone. In many cases, it is a carefully cleaned and prepared specimen that is, after penetration, easily escaped by anyone with eyes and a modicum of diving skill.

People feel safe penetrating wrecks like these, and with good reason. Many operators run trips to these wrecks every day with a very reasonable expectation of safety.

As we move up the spectrum of danger, we begin to encounter more and more danger, and the mood shifts, and with good reason.

For the most part, people who dive wrecks avidly will never encounter a wreck that is really dangerous. They should always be able to find their way out without too much difficulty. If it is a wreck like the Spiegel Grove, with plenty of safe exploring and some not-so-safe, they will stay away from the not-so-safe (wisely) and still feel they have dived the wreck.

Caves are another animal. There are far fewer caves, and you don't have operators running trips to them constantly. A cave is differentiated from a cavern, so a cave is more similar to the not-so-safe sections of the Speigel Grove, which are avoided by the casual diver.

Thus, if you limit your discussion to wrecks to the ones that more closely resemble caves in complexity, you may find that it is not all that different.

Dude.. There are hundreds off caves and probably well over a thousand in Florida alone. And that does not even cover Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee, Missouri, Arkansas, Louisiana, Texas and a few other states with them. Far fewer?? That is relative to where you are at.

 

[Scott L]

Progressive penetration combined with cave certification would seem be the ideal path from what all I have read. The fact that I am only cavern certified shows the respect I have for both disciplines. The fear of entanglement in a wreck is something I wish to avoid. Howard E & CD have the right idea diving CCR IMO allowing much more time to deal with such issues....

 

[crd_kats]

Overhead dives are a blast.. Just have to be ready for that OH CRAP moment.. WOW that looks funny after toning it down

Oh, don't get me wrong. I do wreck dive.. was on the Cap't Dan just a few weeks ago and it was awesome

Roger that Cave Diver...........and yes I have a fear of overheads, call me chicken but I'd like to see my first grandkids and Porsche Cayman.

I almost killed myself at Ginnie Springs shortly after getting certified at 16 in 1979 and not having the proper training. I remember it today, but I was diving with a preacher whom I had to save from my "limited" PADI training to get us back to the "ballroom hole" when our rented light (one) went out and freaked us out.

:consolation: Aw, I was just teasing. I'm sorry you got freaked and won't give it another go. Knowing your limitations is a good thing and there isn't room for ego in diving.

 

[Sas]

I actually find serious wreck diving more dangerous than caves and I think training is required before people start penetration (whether this is better via mentorship or a course depends on what is available). Locally at least, I am sure around the world it differs. I believe there is more than can go wrong in wrecks however in caves you are generally a lot further removed from open water than in a wreck. In wrecks they can collapse, lots of sharp bits, can be dangerous materials, easier to get entangled on all the stuff that is inside the wreck, locally there can be strong surge inside some of the wrecks as well as bad conditions outside the wreck (problematic for deco and things like that) which can be quite dangerous where as the local caves are not really affected by weather and I imagine flow is easier to predict than what happens in the ocean, there can be really cramped spots (I know this is the same in caves but even in 'beginner wrecks' it seems to be a lot more cramped than 'beginner caves') and then there is of course, marine life

That being said I have entered a few wrecks. Of the swiss cheese variety where I can always see the exit, there is no chance of silting, and the conditions are calm. I've also swum through swimthroughs and sea caves too, before I had overhead training. It's hard to make a blanket statement about what is appropriate for one to do without actual training. I think that most people enter wrecks more often than they would a cave because of the press that cave diving has gotten. People just don't see wrecks as dangerous, both divers and non-divers, which is a misconception in my opinion. I think it is partly too because operators use wrecks as a drawcard for divers, and generally run pretty safe operations. A lot of the local wrecks that you can run into trouble by going inside are out of rec range so it keeps unqualified people away usually.

 

[Abaco24]

Be safe and get the advanced training

 

[Rhone Man]

Isn't the answer that there is no such thing as non-pentration cave diving?

Plenty of people swim safely above and around wrecks, and call it "wreck diving". There is only one way to cave dive.

 

[msg]

Any special diving, I want the training. Too much can happen, not knowing what to do when it does, just doesn't sit well with me. I am just paranoid about those things--experience and teaching you can't have enough.

 

[Scott L]

Isn't the answer that there is no such thing as non-pentration cave diving?

Plenty of people swim safely above and around wrecks, and call it "wreck diving". There is only one way to cave dive.

I believe you are spot-on with both comments. If you were refering to my post I failed to included wreck diving after progressive penetration...

 

[SailNaked]

why not add Deco diving to the list, after all all you have to do is do a few stops at a few depths off a table, how hard could that be, what could possibly go wrong?

 

[IDS_Bill]

SASPOTATO had some really good comments on this. If you are talking an artificial reef then there are exits cut and the wreck has been cleaned. Depending upon the level of cleanliness though, over time you can get into holes and areas that were never cleaned (like below decks on the Duane in Key Largo) and get yourself in trouble (like Steve Donathon on the Yukon).

The big deal though is when you start diving wrecks that have been put down by force. When we dive wrecks in SE Asia, you are diving something that has been blown into submission and has not been cleaned and has had few, if any divers in it before you, then youa re talking one he77 of a dangerous situation. Hanging cables, razor sharp metal, objects that can shift and fall on you (Chrissy Rouse - U869), siltouts from the bottom AND the ceiling if you are diving OC, blocked passages and ORDINANCE! (I haven't found a torpedo, bomb or bullet in a cave yet)

Basically, certs means nothing when you get deep into the $&#@. It's all about TRAINING. If you believe that you already know everything about wrecks and have nothing more to learn then you should probably stay out of them. None of us knows everything and there is always something more we can learn to keep from expiring inside an overhead environment - be it man made or naturally carved.