DMs can get in trouble?

[DBailey]

so, I have a question, if everyone is ascending, and you have 2000 psi left, have you ever just sort of nonchalantly pretended not to notice and keep diving...? Sometimes it is better just not to look.

What was discussed in the dive briefing?

If in the briefing it was stated that everyone would surface when the first person hit 500psi, and you agreed to this, then you should head up.

 

[DallasNewbie]

Apparently. I'll tell all my DM buddies to take it easy.

Regarding your .sig, how come you only teach "Basic Survival Skills" to "sworn law enforcement or military personnel"?

 

[Doc]

so, I have a question, if everyone is ascending, and you have 2000 psi left, have you ever just sort of nonchalantly pretended not to notice and keep diving...? Sometimes it is better just not to look.

I smiled when I read that.

A lot depends upon the dive plan, what you agreed to by sitting thrui the dive briefing and not raising your hand when the DM asked, "Any questions?"

I have seen some interesting solutions to this problem. It does depend upon the character of the dive.

If there are two DM's, one will continue to collect the heavy breathers and eventually herd the upstairs en masse. Obviously, this is dependent upon everyone using the "1/2 Full" (referee's Time out hand sign) when they have reached the 1500. The assigned DM can then begin to assess everybody's rate, and he will understand that the first diver to signal will use exponentially more and more air as his worry factor sets in. Eventually, he will gather his charges and slowly ascend. In some places with different theories on liability, the DM will hand the air sucker a long hosed 1st stage as we all cling to the lava formations watching for the Hammerheads to fly by in the underwater breeze.

In a gentler situation, say the Caribbean, it depends upon whether its a moored dive or a drift dive.

In a drift dive, the DM usually handles the reel and the dive flag. The Boat Captain, very much so a real part of the dive team, follows this and his trained eye can spot individual divers by their bubbles. If select divers are directed skyward, they should understand to make a slow ascent, keeping forward pace with the dive flag- after making a moving 15' safety stop (a real skill to be learned), they ascend and signal the driver by whatever agreed upon method.

This is where the skill of deploying the sausage from depth (20fsw) on a line and then waiting 5 mins at 15fsw, all the time staying near the flag. Many do not understand how very little air they consume at 15fsw and really begin to panic, causing heavier breathing. At 300 psi one might hang at 15 feet for 15 minutes if in good form.

On a moored dive where the DM is signalling the 1/2 way point in a wall dive, where he wants you to slowly ascend then at a predetermined shallower depth, begin your return to the mooring pin. If I were the DM, if you showed me your gauge with 2000 psi, signalled me that you were going to go a bit further and then loop back, I would then give you the OK and dawdle back with my ducklings.

If, however, I was a Cayman divemaster, I would hold your hand, tell you "no-no" and then lead you back to the boat. I would do whatver my boss told me to do.

In the Philippines, the resort told them 30 min BT on night dives. After day three we had a chat with the DM and told him that we weren't going to say anything if he wasn't. We would drift along in 20' in ripping currents for 1:30, until he got cold and got out. 15 minutes later we would follow.

It all depends on who you are (both parties) and what the DM is directed to do. Pick your dive ops wisely.

 

[Doc]

Regarding your .sig,"?

PM sent. Not off topic at all. It's all about lawyers, lawsuits and liability.

 

[Al Mialkovsky]

so, I have a question, if everyone is ascending, and you have 2000 psi left, have you ever just sort of nonchalantly pretended not to notice and keep diving...? Sometimes it is better just not to look.

Maybe once, maybe

 

[del_mo]

so, I have a question, if everyone is ascending, and you have 2000 psi left, have you ever just sort of nonchalantly pretended not to notice and keep diving...? Sometimes it is better just not to look.

What I have been running into more and more is bottom time being the determining factor, not what's left in your tank or how much nitrogen you've absorbed. "We'll dive for 25 minutes"...period. The last time I tried to ignore the DM he blew his water whistle until he couldn't be ignored.

 

[String]

What happens varies depending where you are in the world.

In the UK its very rare to find a boat that has a DM.... and ive NEVER seen one with a DM that gets in the water. Its just not needed or practical.

 

[RockPile]

so a DM working where its not required by law to guide, would be better off not diving so as not to be liable should someone die?
Other threads are making it sound like a DM will get sued if a diver dies.

As far as I know there are no statutory obligations for a DM. Thus, not likely criminal. This falls squarely in the civil arena. And certainly in a civil court a DM would be found to have a heightened degree of responsibility towards the rest of the divers (and though it's not talked about, a "buddy" too can be found liable and there is a growing body of case law concerning this). If a diver dies and a party sues, it's a matter of negligence where the burden of proof is much diminished relative to the burdens established for criminal cases.

Negligence is complicated and broadly defined. So, as a matter of good practice (and frankly, I think this isn't news to any DM), I would suggest that the best practice for a DM is to have a good reason for everything they do. If staying the boat is the best decision, stay on the boat. Etc. If a diving outfit has policies in place for diver safety, follow them as closely when possible because they will be helpful in determining what “industry custom” is and what is not.

DMs have responsibilities, as vague as they may be, when working and they should take them seriously, which most do very well. And divers should help them out by not being idiots and creating problems, which most divers do well.

Now that I've written this, I wonder about how helpful or even interesting it is, but I'll post it anyway.

JB

 

[RockPile]

so, I have a question, if everyone is ascending, and you have 2000 psi left, have you ever just sort of nonchalantly pretended not to notice and keep diving...? Sometimes it is better just not to look.

It's almost as if you never saw Open Water.

I've realized that as my biggest fear now over Jaws. After watching Open Water (not a good movie, BTW), I think having ONE big shark dispatch you quickly is much preferable to lots of little sharks nibbling on you for days.

But that's neither here nor there (just somewhere lurking in my mind between REM and Stage 1 sleep).

JB

 

[ItsBruce]

Stay tuned for an article on DM liability.