DM without internship ??

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Blackrock it depends on how long the instructors allow for it and if they do allow speedy proceedures then it depends on how well and how fast the student does. The first thing I had to do was go in and do the class work. Once I did the class work and passed it we did the skills test. After that we did our practical portion of the exam which then we had to do our skills assesment.

After the skills assessment we went to work with some students. then we went to the lake to do our mapping and EAP as well as work with students at the lake.
 
One of the things that comes to my mind when i did my DM course last year is that there were shops in my area that would not actually put you with a real class with real students for your DM course. Instead they used certified divers to simulate the scenarios that were required for the DM practical course. The instructors would include situations that a DM would face in these simulations that were very lose/lose in order to get a DMC/DMIT to understand the stuff that would happen to them with real students.

I personally think this is a bit of a foolish way to do things, as it doesn't expose students to real life, which is a much better, though sometimes crueler teacher. When looking for my DM course, I went out of my way to find a place that would actually put me with real students for my training. The person that I did my training with made me pay for the course, however, he also let me work the majority of it off in his shop at a reasonable wage.

If you think about it, if you were going to college or university, when you take a class you pay for both the practical and theoretical courses, even if you are doing work for people as part of the course. As a result, why shouldn't you pay for a DM course? (as they front the costs for the air, books, pool time, etc.) The opportunity to work on the other hand, both in a shop and as a DM, I think should be offered to new trainees even if it is only for 2-4 weeks. It give the shop owner/instructor a safe return on investment, and gives the student a chance to gain experience and real life dive shop skills past their course.
 
Pratical method; "role playing" --instructor has other dm canidates or certified divers role play being students ..
Intern method; actual and complete ow course from classroom presentations to confined water sessions..
also assist 10 ow dives..suggested to be variety of courses ( 4 ow training dives/advance course dives/rescue course/specialities..)..this is old DM course requirement..New Dm course requirements,which I believe start to be implemented July 21 of this year I have not reviewed yet, I am sure that it will not be too different....
As for "working for nothing" not really, being a DM in training does not increase student/instr ratio and as such does nothing to increase instructors pay or really makes his day easier (sometimes it makes it tougher!). Dm in training is there more so to observe. When I have a DM in training I do not have them conduct tour portion of ow training dives 1 thru 3..May conduct tour portion of 4 AFTER instructor debriefs student and student is actually certified- so it really is a dive after certification for the ow student.. Some instructors use DM students as unpaid hired help for long periods of time,but all that time is not required by standards for the course..Sure alot of experience is gained but in reality it costs the DM student alot more that way because they loose income from their real jobs. Actually less expensive to pay for your course and just get it done.
 
it depends on what you want to do with the DM time and where you are i think? and also how experienced you are.
the other thing is the instructor... make sure whatever store you go with your instructor is someone whom you like and respect. this will make the IDC much, much easier.

.

good advise about choosing the right instructor. I would suggest seeking out an IDC staff instructor for DM course.It should be a requirement. Presentations and skill development will be similar to what you will experience at an IDC and methods will begin to sink in to your head Will make future IDC that you may attend easier..Many owsi"s ,especially new ones, can get you thru a DM course, but it will not be as professional as what a experienced IDC staff instructor can offer.
 
Pratical method; "role playing" --instructor has other dm canidates or certified divers role play being students ..
Intern method; actual and complete ow course from classroom presentations to confined water sessions..
also assist 10 ow dives..suggested to be variety of courses ( 4 ow training dives/advance course dives/rescue course/specialities..)..this is old DM course requirement..New Dm course requirements,which I believe start to be implemented July 21 of this year I have not reviewed yet, I am sure that it will not be too different....

...Some instructors use DM students as unpaid hired help for long periods of time,but all that time is not required by standards for the course..Sure alot of experience is gained but in reality it costs the DM student alot more that way because they loose income from their real jobs. Actually less expensive to pay for your course and just get it done.

Ok, so I agree it would be better training to assist with real classes and students rather than with a bunch of certified stand-ins. But why should that method take 2 months (in a resort setting) when you only have to assist 10 OW dives ?

I am seeking good training and experience but I am also trying to avoid being "unpaid hired help" and having it cost me an unnecessary amount of money. This is exactly what I am trying to sort through and why I posted the thread.

good advise about choosing the right instructor. I would suggest seeking out an IDC staff instructor for DM course.It should be a requirement. Presentations and skill development will be similar to what you will experience at an IDC and methods will begin to sink in to your head Will make future IDC that you may attend easier..Many owsi"s ,especially new ones, can get you thru a DM course, but it will not be as professional as what a experienced IDC staff instructor can offer.

How would you guys suggest I go about finding and choosing the "right" instructor for my IDC? What sort of questions should I ask? What credentials should I look for?

Thanks.
 
If our candidates are restricted on time, but want to assist with real classes we have them assist on at least 1 Open Water, 1 Advanced and 1 Rescue course (approx 2 weeks full time), in addition to shadowing certified guides. This is beyond what PADI require but gives a good 'eye opener' to working with actual students at different levels as opposed to simulated role playing. If candidates have more time then the more courses they assist, then the more they get out of the program, especially if they are going onto the IDC.

We never use trainees in lieu of paid staff/certified assistants, and I don't think most credible operators would either as your very limited as a trainee on the actual work you can do as you are not an official certified assistant. You're always going to be expected to load boats, haul tanks etc, regardless of your certification level, from Divemaster in training, even up to Course Director, it's part of the team work!

Often in resorts in many countries (Central America/Caribbean) the labor costs are very low for manual work anyway so there's not much benefit to a dive operator trading a DM program for minor/manual duties.
 
Has anyone taken just the straight DM course without an internship component and did you regret it when it came time for your IDC?

I did my DM in 6 days. If one really wants to work (think paycheck) in Hawaii's scuba industry, you pretty much have to be an Instructor.

In spring '01 I did nearly zero to past hero training and a few months later returned to Hawaii on a flight rescheduled due to 9/11. Ended up getting to rent a great beachfront ex-vacation rental and even with practically no tourism I was working as Instructor at the LDS of choice by spring '02.

Two years later I was Senior Instructor; salary, benefits, shop liability insurance, true key man pricing. 6 day DM was perfect as far as I'm concerned; IDC and IE were easier because of the 6 day DM.

http://www.prodiveusa.com/2010forms/2010_Course_Schedule_web.pdf

Pro Dive:
Divemaster
Starts Monday, 8:00 a.m. / 10 Days / 10 Dives

2011 PADI Instructor Course Dates Key Largo Florida

Divemaster

Ocean Divers:
How long will it take?
Seven Days
 
Last edited:
halemanō;5944671:
I did my DM in 6 days. If one really wants to work (think paycheck) in Hawaii's scuba industry, you pretty much have to be an Instructor.

In spring '01 I did nearly zero to past hero training and a few months later returned to Hawaii on a flight rescheduled due to 9/11. Ended up getting to rent a great beachfront ex-vacation rental and even with practically no tourism I was working as Instructor at the LDS of choice by spring '02.

Two years later I was Senior Instructor; salary, benefits, shop liability insurance, true key man pricing. 6 day DM was perfect as far as I'm concerned; IDC and IE were easier because of the 6 day DM.

http://www.prodiveusa.com/2010forms/2010_Course_Schedule_web.pdf



2011 PADI Instructor Course Dates Key Largo Florida

Divemaster

Wow. 6 days DM and on to Sr. Instructor. Zero to Hero is right-- and NO sarcasm intented--considering our past conflicts. Our Sr. Instructor is a PADI MI--
Are you comparable? I totally admire your devotion to the ''industry". I still collect live shells and you hate that idea, and we disagree on stuff. But Wow,
DM in 6 days. I am impressed.
 
This post is way to long, kind of like most of the DM internships I've seen. Most who start never finish from what I've seen. I couldn't have kissed patootie that long. My only DMC, at that first shop, gave up after a year and became an non-DM famous surf artist.

It is hard for anybody to be compared to another as apples to apples. The Senior Instructor thing is just the way the bushel tumbles. A Master Instructor is probably on a path to train instructors and would surely be better at that than I, but that shop did not train instructors, and very few DM's, so a guy who specializes in nervous beginners was perhaps better than an MI, for that shops Senior Instructor position.

My dad and nearly all his buddies and co-workers were college professors with teaching degrees, as well as backcountry adventurers. When I was 16 my head of the Math and Science Department dad married the head of the Humanities Department; same college where I eventually got my only degree. I was raised to teach, teaching my friends how to do adventurous stuff before I knew the definition of teacher.

My Advanced Open Water Class was 5 students, all planning to be at least OWSI in 4-6 weeks. 2 joined us at Rescue and 2 joined us at DM, although we lost one of the original 5 (failed DM), 5 took MSDT Prep and 2 of us made it all the way through Resort Pro. All through all these courses, run back to back to back with no days off, we were not just taking the AOW, or Rescue, or DM courses; we were also analyzing the hows and whys of the training we were receiving.

The Instructors for AOW were Staff Instructors, Rescue and DM were taught by a Master Instructor (and master frog kicker), IDC, MSDT Prep and Resort Pro by Course Directors and various other agency Instructor Trainers, including IANTD Blender, and then Draeger Dolphin Diver from that same IANTD IT, and then an invitation to do IANTD Instructor crossover from his boss, the neighboring IANTD Founder; one of my happy hour drinking buddies over the second month. 2 months of 6 AM to 10 PM, learning to teach diving, from instructor trainers who train instructors every day of the year.

Kind of interesting that the hippie campus brat ended up being PADI hoodwinked into slightly less but significantly more than he was promised. Compared to IDC's I've seen and heard of here in the Islands, I went to a superior teachers college, and took more courses at the neighboring technical teachers college.

All but one in my section had pretty darn good water skills and experience. The barrel shaped guy from Middle Tennessee was in BP/W. He kind of struggled and had to learn how to do a lot of the stuff his own way. The soft Ivy Leaguer who go his OW 6 months earlier, quit after a failed choppy current rescue at Deep Molasses, and kind of had to be rescued by the CD. He tried again with the next section, and I think again with the next next section. The boat had to untie and go get 'em; the CD quit using his new original ScubaPro splits and went back to his old blades.

One boat trip during the IDC, conditions put us on a site with mostly lame coral reef and not much in the way of sand. We obviously had to let the Miami OW Instructor have the tiny sand so we set up on the reef. Most of my classmates and I were mortified at all the bottom contact by the CD; all but two of us did all skill teaching demonstrations with both mock instructor and mock student "off the bottom" (occasional finger poke), although in a more vertical body position than what's been "published" recently. Back on the boat the CD said nothing about it, so we only muttered under our breath to each other.

And all the while there is also a constant stream of typical tourist divers sharing the same boat and dive sites, as well as real students taking OW / AOW for us to audit and to observe. My day as "DM" during Resort Pro, there was an uncontrolled ascent from the deck of the Duane, with a breach that nearly got "her" all the way out of the water.

That was also the next sections DMC audit of the CD conducting the AOW Deep dive. The CD attempted to arrest the ascent of the stranger, then came to the surface to help with the rescue, abandoning the DMC's and the AOW student still down at 108 fsw.

He probably did that because the only "acting" DM was the paying for training student; not an employee. Pretty sure there is an "employee" DM now when the Resort Pro student is "acting" DM.

3 pairs of divers came to the surface sharing air; a pair of now both LOA DMC's, a certified customer with a LOA DMC and another certified customer with the LOA AOW student.

"She" was in the bar drinking wine at happy hour, after her morning ambulance ride to a short chamber run; never really figured that one out.

Anyway, my point is that if you approach instructor factory pro training like a sponge, some sponges can retain a lot of koolaid from that short but significant immersion. :dontknow:
 
Has anyone taken just the straight DM course without an internship component and did you regret it when it came time for your IDC?

I did. My DM course was 2 weeks long. All lectures were presented IDC style and I was evaluated in the pool for Stamina, skills and rescue. Then I assisted on the required number of courses to gain certification. However I worked as a DM before taking my IDC, not that that made any difference as working as a DM does not necessarily help you teach courses. You gain some perspective in control, but DM work is largely filling tanks and giving dive briefings, teaching is a whole different kettle of fish.
The reality is that whatever IDC you choose to take; or whoever's, they will spoon fed you the necessary information required to pass the I.E. No IDC teaches you how to teach, you learn this after you pass, and god help your first few students! :D
Go with your gut for the DM course. Talk to the shop, in person (same for the IDC) if you find a personality that you can get along with, then take that instructor and let them mentor you.
 

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