DM pay or free to 'hold hand'?

[Lead_carrier]

Would you do your job for free?

Some might say that dive professionals who are willing to work for free are a contributing factor as to why one cannot make a living in the dive business.

I almost do. By the time I pay my taxes, gear, travel, and count my time. Yea, I teach for almost free.

Check LeisurePro, they usually have whatever someone is looking for cheaper than locally, and they guarantee it better than the manufacturer. :1poke:

 

[TyTy]

The poster did not specify his age and I'm not saying he is a minor, but the disrespectful "rich old geezer" remark when speaking about one's father is not something you normally hear come from a responsible young man over 18. If my son were to refer to me in this way I'd be on the boat and he'd be scrubbing the dock on his hands and knees. Sorry it's just this generations lack of courtesy and respect for those who provide for them and indulge their every whim with out expecting anything in return burns me up.But that's to be expected from some of them who cannot even pull their pants up or put a proper size shirt on, or the right size hat on straight.

I did specify my age, I am 24 years old, have a great relationship with my father whom I can poke or prod at about being a rich old geezer all I please, seeing as how he is MY father. If you dont like my comments about my own father who I respect more than any man I've ever met or spoke with, then click the big red X at the top of the screen to close the page.

As for the comments directed towards the question at hand, thank you I appreciate the conveyance of knowledge.

 

[TyTy]

I skimmed right over that remark when reading his post...however, i have deduced from the nature of other comments that Ty is young and has probably been overindulged a bit...I'm guessing right out of high school or early 20's. I'm totally with you Jim...this attitude and behavior is maddening!

Christi, like I said, I am 24 years old, 2 months from turning 25. I graduated from college in perfect time and have since been a self suficient man, living on my own ticket and in Atlanta Georgia working on my career.

Assumptions about my upbringing are unnecesary in answering my original question.

You know what they say about assumptions.

 

[cdiver2]

Would you do your job for free?

Some might say that dive professionals who are willing to work for free are a contributing factor as to why one cannot make a living in the dive business.

I would say the one's to look at for the DM's not being able to make a living at it are the dive operters.....pay the DM's nothing and expect them to get it from tips.

Now we all know some divers do not tip, some tip a small amount and then take into account days when the boat is not full or there are no charters at all pretty miserable way to try and make a living, maybe its time to look at a DM's union...now that would scare the pants off a few people.

As for this thread it seems to me all he is looking for is some local knowledge, a sensible thing to do and I see nothing wrong with offering free diving in exchange for that.

 

[RonFrank]

Christi,

You've just explained why someone willing to take a DM on the boat at no charge, and even pay for air IS compensation.

There is certainly nothing wrong with recreational boat owners using the boat for diving. There are things that should be considered. IMO having O2 on the Boat is one example. But IMO one does NOT need to be a trained, and licensed Captain to go boat diving.

As for liability, when does the DM become Liable for someone diving with them? I would think that without a contract, and payment, there would be no liability. If payment was made, and an agreement signed then there is liability.

Ironically every contract I've ever signed using a DiveOP is FULL of releases that basically say that diving is dangerous, and they are NOT responsible if I am injured or die. In fact, I sign a similar waiver every time I take training with the LDS, or even just use their pool

So with that said, when exactly IS a DM or Instructor liable?? Based on all the stuff I've had to sign it would seem... never... :11:

 

[Doc Intrepid]

Christi, like I said, I am 24 years old, 2 months from turning 25. I graduated from college in perfect time and have since been a self suficient man, living on my own ticket and in Atlanta Georgia working on my career.

Assumptions about my upbringing are unnecesary in answering my original question.

You know what they say about assumptions.

Dude, relax a bit.

Very few would seriously question your upbringing in considering your question.

What you might not know, however, is that in the past four months there have been at least four, if not five, cases where divers did a drop off a private boat, and when the time was up, they simply didn't show. In three recent cases they were never seen again. There is quite a letter you may want to read, on Spearboard, linked to ScubaBoard, from the father of one of these divers who disappeared. I'm sure someone can produce the link. Off North Carolina, the diver who drifted off to eternity was the owner of the boat. Off Florida, New York, New Jersey, and again, North Carolina, other fatalities in the past four months were simply divers off private boats.

Crap happens.

The point is that it isn't unreasonable of your father to be concerned, as he might not either (a) know what to do (beyond call for help); or (B) be prepared to track a drifting diver, haul a stricken diver aboard, treat a stricken diver, provide emergency medivac to a stricken diver, etc.

It's one thing to own a boat. It's a different thing to have the skills necessary to support diving off that boat.

If you want basically a pro to give some pointers on judging local currents, dive sites (incl numbers for wrecks), drift techniques, best way to hook to the wreck or site, etc, hire a pro and offer to pay the pro. If you want general pointers, but less than the above, advertise for a local buddy.

Best advice is to be clear about what you want - then pay or not accordingly.

People are generally trying to ensure that you're aware of some things that could prevent your Dad from writing a letter like that other father wrote.

Be cool, and dive safe.

Doc

 

[gecko2gecko]

Dude, relax a bit.

Very few would seriously question your upbringing in considering your question.

FWIW, I don't even know TyTy but I was offended for him by some of the responses he received. Being treated like the social pariah simply because you are young gets really old.

TyTy...don't let anything like that stop you from perusing and posting on the boards. There are a LOT of really helpful people on here. There are also some who really just want to help but it gets "lost in translation." Take it with a grain of salt if it rubs you the wrong way.

 

[nkydiver]

RonFrank,

I went throught the DiveCon program with my LDS last year and have been assisting them since then. The first class we had was about liability and risk. The way it has been explained to me, once you go from a recreational diver to a dive professional, be it it DiveCon, DM, or Instructor, and you represent yourself as a dive professional, you are responsible for the divers on the boat or trip with you. If an incident occurs, and you have represented yourself as a person of professional status, you more than likely will be asked if you have done everything in your power as a professional to assist.

This is why the dive shop advised that if we were traveling and diving, and not part of a dive shop sponsored activity, we may only want to carry our master diver cards, and not advise anyone of our status as DiveCons or Instructors.

Christi,

You've just explained why someone willing to take a DM on the boat at no charge, and even pay for air IS compensation.

There is certainly nothing wrong with recreational boat owners using the boat for diving. There are things that should be considered. IMO having O2 on the Boat is one example. But IMO one does NOT need to be a trained, and licensed Captain to go boat diving.

As for liability, when does the DM become Liable for someone diving with them? I would think that without a contract, and payment, there would be no liability. If payment was made, and an agreement signed then there is liability.

Ironically every contract I've ever signed using a DiveOP is FULL of releases that basically say that diving is dangerous, and they are NOT responsible if I am injured or die. In fact, I sign a similar waiver every time I take training with the LDS, or even just use their pool

So with that said, when exactly IS a DM or Instructor liable?? Based on all the stuff I've had to sign it would seem... never... :11:

 

[Christi]

Christi, like I said, I am 24 years old, 2 months from turning 25. I graduated from college in perfect time and have since been a self suficient man, living on my own ticket and in Atlanta Georgia working on my career.

Assumptions about my upbringing are unnecesary in answering my original question.

You know what they say about assumptions.

As I said...

Ty,

We don't think you're crazy...we just want you to be safe and to realizw what all is involved. As a new diver, obvioulsy you are also new to protocol and procedures. We're giving you things to think about...that's all. AS always, I commend new divers for asking questions rather than thinking they already know it all...

Yes, I had in mu mind deduced that you were young...no harm in that...I wasn't condemning that. I simply found your remark to be immature and disresepctful (whether he is your father or not) to all "rich old geezers." You say that my remark was not necessary, I could say the same to you about that remark...it had nothing to do with your original post.

Again, myself and others are only trying to give you sound advice to keep you and your father and anyone that dives with you safe and as far out of harms way as possible. I hear about so many accidents all the time that could have been avoided with a little more knowledge.

I'm trying to be helpful, if you cannot see that, I'm sorry. Best of luck to you and be safe.

 

[cdiver2]

Christi,

You've just explained why someone willing to take a DM on the boat at no charge, and even pay for air IS compensation.

There is certainly nothing wrong with recreational boat owners using the boat for diving. There are things that should be considered. IMO having O2 on the Boat is one example. But IMO one does NOT need to be a trained, and licensed Captain to go boat diving.

As for liability, when does the DM become Liable for someone diving with them? I would think that without a contract, and payment, there would be no liability. If payment was made, and an agreement signed then there is liability.

Ironically every contract I've ever signed using a DiveOP is FULL of releases that basically say that diving is dangerous, and they are NOT responsible if I am injured or die. In fact, I sign a similar waiver every time I take training with the LDS, or even just use their pool

So with that said, when exactly IS a DM or Instructor liable?? Based on all the stuff I've had to sign it would seem... never... :11:

good questions