DM Expectations...

[MauiScubaSteve]

So now, you are a certified D/M? Or instructor?

Yes to both

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Sorry, but I have never seen anyplace on this Earth (from Athens Greece to Tavenuni Fiji across Europe and the USA) where you can actually drum up any customers as a D/M for any of these. Normall the store owner simply tells you, "take this person diving," and it will be up to the diver how much he/she tips you.

And when you negotiate with an instructor, here is what he/she will normally offer you --> sandwich / pizza.

So I do not believe it, sorry.

I freelance with three different shops. When a person asks about doing a refresher or discover scuba or other service I can do independent of an instructor I get the money. Unfortunately those are few and far between. I also work through a shop that will let me use the pool for free for any of these things. WHat does he get? Gear sales. I refer people to him. I also have just made a few contacts to do discover scuba birthday parties at the same location. I'll be giving him money for the pool in this case. Not because he wants it but with these people it's unlikely they will go on to certification(yuppies with too much money spoiling their kids) even though I'll suggest it. So gear sales may not happen but he'll still get some cash. I feel that's only fair.

 

[Colliam7]

What should my expectations be of a DM certification?

What you are seeing from the responses is that the answer to your question is, 'It varies, from LDS to LDS.' I started DM because I wanted to improve my skills, not because I wanted to teach, or assist in the shop. I found out how much I enjoyed working with OW students and am now continuing my 'development'. As a DMC, I was a scut puppy. I hauled tanks, helped students get their gear from the locker, even towed the shop gear trailer to the quarry for checkouts, etc., etc. We joke about slavery and indentured servitude, but there are no unreasonable expectations, and our DMCs are treated with courtesy, respect and professionalism. I also got to demo skills, lead tours, etc. Our internships were not time-referenced, as much as experience-referenced. DMCs were expected to participate in / assist with one full OW class, one full AOW class, and one Rescue class. If we wanted to DMC for specialty classes in addition, we were welcome to do so. No pay as a DMC, of course. And, we did pay tuition for the DM course. As a certified DM I became part of the shop 'staff'. I now sign up to do Scuba Reviews, to DM for OW, AOW and Rescue classes - i.e. to do what I am allowed to do by my certification, and I get paid for it (minimal, but pay nonetheless). I get shop discounts on the basis of being shop staff. I can 'market' Scuba Reviews, Discover Scuba courses, etc. as vigorously as I choose (and the shop owner is delighted to have me do so), although it is for and through the shop, not just for me as a completely independent contractor. If we have a shop coastal charter scheduled, I may be asked to join the group to be available to assist the group leader (in which case my charter fee is comp'd), or to 'lead' the group (charter fee comp'd + minimal extra compensation). The bottom line, there is no requirement of service, beyond DM certification. It is anticipated that many of those who complete DM will want to serve as shop staff in some capacity, but there is no obligation to do so, any more than there is any obligation on the part of the shop to use your services.

 

[Joe-Diver]

I don't really care if you believe it or not. I am a working Divemaster and I do bill for my services. Your blanket statement and your observations are simply not true or accurate...you can continue to "not believe it" and simply deny reality. Fine by me.

Sorry, but I have never seen anyplace on this Earth (from Athens Greece to Tavenuni Fiji across Europe and the USA) where you can actually drum up any customers as a D/M for any of these. Normall the store owner simply tells you, "take this person diving," and it will be up to the diver how much he/she tips you.

And when you negotiate with an instructor, here is what he/she will normally offer you --> sandwich / pizza.

So I do not believe it, sorry.

 

[PhilEllis]

Monsignor Ellis, my good man, you left out the fine print.

WHAT is the OBLIGATION thereafter?

One season or two?

I do not believe that you are in the business of giving away free D/M classes for nothing.

You should read carefully. We don't give away Dive Master classes. We also do not aggressively market the Dive Master class. We charge a tuition fee of $500, plus books and materials for a Dive Master class. With the amount of individual times our instructors spend with a Dive Master candidate, we would go broke if we "aggressively marketed" that class. We are very selective on who we choose to go through this class. There is no obligation from any student to do anything in our store. I did clearly state that we have room in our training organization for 4 active, working Dive Masters. We choose those at the beginning of each training season from the available certified Dive Masters, just as we would choose any other employee. For those Dive Masters, we pay the professional liability insurance, compensate the Dive Master on a "per student" basis, exactly as we compensate our instructors (our full time employees are also paid a "per student" fee for each student they teach. I do not consider teaching to be a part of the salary that the full time instructor gets for working in the store 5 days a week). We provide all of the equipment our Dive Masters use during classes and store sanctioned events. We pay any expenses (travel, admissions, mileage, etc) for same incurred during any work a Dive Master is doing for our store.

Dive Masters at Dive Sports are not tank jockeys. They are an active part of the student education process. Just as it was intended to be by EVERY ONE of the major certification agencies.

Nereas.......you must have had some pretty bad experiences. Blood sucking vampires? Dive Masters working as slaves? I have never heard of such a thing. Oh, by the way, if you have been reading any of my posts on any scuba board over the past 4 years, you would know that when I write, it is NEVER necessary to "read between the lines". I say what I mean and mean what I say. Thanks.

Phil Ellis

 

[PhilEllis]

Wow, Phil!! Six months is WAY too long for the DM apprentice training program. What are you doing with/to them??

Three months, at most, should be the standard...

We are teaching them to be real Dive Masters. Remember, in the PADI system, the teaching skills and demonstration quality dive skills MUST be learned in the Dive Master class. If they move on to the Instructor level, those classes teach mostly the law, agency standards, and other information. IT IS ASSUMED by any PADI IDC that the instructor candidate already possesses demonstration quality skills and knows the ins and outs of teaching diving.

Actually, some Dive Master candidates take LONGER than six months. A Dive Master class at our store takes as long as is necessary to imbed the skills. Only then can they be recommended for professional status.

Phil Ellis

 

[Joe-Diver]

Phil, sounds like you're running a real quality outfit and turning out excellent dive professionals. What you provide is very, very similar to my experience becoming a Divemaster. It took me 4 months to complete my course. I was in no hurry to do so and soaked up every bit of the experience. My attitude was one of, "enjoy this while you can, you'll only do this once!".

 

[Bubble Junky]

As a D/M you can work on boats for tips. That is about all the compensation that a D/M is ever entitled to receive anywhere.

This statement is an absolute load of bollox !!! Just because some people are stupid enough to work for free and loudly moan about it, don't believe that DMs never earn money. I've worked alongside many DMs in many dfferent coutries, and they were all paid, in cash, for their services - and they earned it !!

And when you negotiate with an instructor, here is what he/she will normally offer you --> sandwich / pizza].

Unless it's an independant instructor, it's not their place to pay the wages. Try negotiating with the employer, ie. the dive centre.

 

[nereas]

You should read carefully. We don't give away Dive Master classes. We also do not aggressively market the Dive Master class. We charge a tuition fee of $500, plus books and materials for a Dive Master class. With the amount of individual times our instructors spend with a Dive Master candidate, we would go broke if we "aggressively marketed" that class. We are very selective on who we choose to go through this class. There is no obligation from any student to do anything in our store. I did clearly state that we have room in our training organization for 4 active, working Dive Masters. We choose those at the beginning of each training season from the available certified Dive Masters, just as we would choose any other employee. For those Dive Masters, we pay the professional liability insurance, compensate the Dive Master on a "per student" basis, exactly as we compensate our instructors (our full time employees are also paid a "per student" fee for each student they teach. I do not consider teaching to be a part of the salary that the full time instructor gets for working in the store 5 days a week). We provide all of the equipment our Dive Masters use during classes and store sanctioned events. We pay any expenses (travel, admissions, mileage, etc) for same incurred during any work a Dive Master is doing for our store.

Dive Masters at Dive Sports are not tank jockeys. They are an active part of the student education process. Just as it was intended to be by EVERY ONE of the major certification agencies.

Nereas.......you must have had some pretty bad experiences. Blood sucking vampires? Dive Masters working as slaves? I have never heard of such a thing. Oh, by the way, if you have been reading any of my posts on any scuba board over the past 4 years, you would know that when I write, it is NEVER necessary to "read between the lines". I say what I mean and mean what I say. Thanks.

Phil Ellis

So your D/M candidates are paying their own way, and between the $500 tuition and the books it will run them about $1000 just like I said. Then afterwards, there is no obligation.

Great, that is exactly what I asked you about. Then there is no obligation by the D/Ms.

I believe an aspiring D/M could find a better deal than what you are offering simply by looking around. There are many instructors willing to train the D/M candidate without charging the tuition, as long as he/she commits to a season or two of active assistance with classes.

 

[nereas]

Phil, sounds like you're running a real quality outfit and turning out excellent dive professionals. What you provide is very, very similar to my experience becoming a Divemaster. It took me 4 months to complete my course. I was in no hurry to do so and soaked up every bit of the experience. My attitude was one of, "enjoy this while you can, you'll only do this once!".