DM Expectations...

[nereas]

This statement is an absolute load of bollox !!! Just because some people are stupid enough to work for free and loudly moan about it, don't believe that DMs never earn money. I've worked alongside many DMs in many dfferent coutries, and they were all paid, in cash, for their services - and they earned it !!

Unless it's an independant instructor, it's not their place to pay the wages. Try negotiating with the employer, ie. the dive centre.

My dear chap, you did not say how much your D/Ms are paid, in quid or in sandwiches, for each dive day.

 

[nereas]

What you are seeing from the responses is that the answer to your question is, 'It varies, from LDS to LDS.' I started DM because I wanted to improve my skills, not because I wanted to teach, or assist in the shop. I found out how much I enjoyed working with OW students and am now continuing my 'development'. As a DMC, I was a scut puppy. I hauled tanks, helped students get their gear from the locker, even towed the shop gear trailer to the quarry for checkouts, etc., etc. We joke about slavery and indentured servitude, but there are no unreasonable expectations, and our DMCs are treated with courtesy, respect and professionalism. I also got to demo skills, lead tours, etc. Our internships were not time-referenced, as much as experience-referenced. DMCs were expected to participate in / assist with one full OW class, one full AOW class, and one Rescue class. If we wanted to DMC for specialty classes in addition, we were welcome to do so. No pay as a DMC, of course. And, we did pay tuition for the DM course. As a certified DM I became part of the shop 'staff'. I now sign up to do Scuba Reviews, to DM for OW, AOW and Rescue classes - i.e. to do what I am allowed to do by my certification, and I get paid for it (minimal, but pay nonetheless). I get shop discounts on the basis of being shop staff. I can 'market' Scuba Reviews, Discover Scuba courses, etc. as vigorously as I choose (and the shop owner is delighted to have me do so), although it is for and through the shop, not just for me as a completely independent contractor. If we have a shop coastal charter scheduled, I may be asked to join the group to be available to assist the group leader (in which case my charter fee is comp'd), or to 'lead' the group (charter fee comp'd + minimal extra compensation). The bottom line, there is no requirement of service, beyond DM certification. It is anticipated that many of those who complete DM will want to serve as shop staff in some capacity, but there is no obligation to do so, any more than there is any obligation on the part of the shop to use your services.

Exactly right!

 

[Bubble Junky]

My dear chap, you did not say how much your D/Ms are paid, in quid or in sandwiches, for each dive day.

They are not 'my' DMs, but they've always been able to afford to live, be it in Australia, New Zealand, Thailand, Egypt, Indonesia etc etc........

 

[PhilEllis]

So your D/M candidates are paying their own way, and between the $500 tuition and the books it will run them about $1000 just like I said. Then afterwards, there is no obligation.

Great, that is exactly what I asked you about. Then there is no obligation by the D/Ms.

I believe an aspiring D/M could find a better deal than what you are offering simply by looking around. There are many instructors willing to train the D/M candidate without charging the tuition, as long as he/she commits to a season or two of active assistance with classes.

Let me see if I understand the choices as you seem to believe they exist.........

1. Get an instructor to teach you for free then you work for him for two years without pay.

2. Pay the tuition of $500 plus the books. When finished, IF YOU DON'T WANT TO WORK FOR TWO YEARS, go go about your way. If you do want to assist with classes, we pay a per student fee, provide ALL of the divemasters dive equipment (brand new each year....the stuff that we want to promote), and pay the premiums for the professional liability insurance.

The big question is.........when someone else says this appears to be a quality program, why do you chime in with the ? It would appear that you detect some sort of scam? wow!

Phil Ellis

 

[nereas]

Yes to both

Cool!

The instructor certification is the only one that actually gives someone credibility with the public, and which provides you with any real revenue.

Nobody on this Earth really cares if you are a "divemaster," whatever that is. They want to know, "are you an instructor?" !

The only danger to these "zero to hero" programs is when the store takes on more candidates than they can offer teaching positions to. But then, that is true even in a university setting as well. That is an inherent problem with academia.

Good to hear from you, haoulee! Thanks for your brief but honest and accurate input.

 

[nereas]

Let me see if I understand the choices as you seem to believe they exist.........

1. Get an instructor to teach you for free then you work for him for two years without pay.

2. Pay the tuition of $500 plus the books. When finished, IF YOU DON'T WANT TO WORK FOR TWO YEARS, go go about your way. If you do want to assist with classes, we pay a per student fee, provide ALL of the divemasters dive equipment (brand new each year....the stuff that we want to promote), and pay the premiums for the professional liability insurance.

The big question is.........when someone else says this appears to be a quality program, why do you chime in with the ? It would appear that you detect some sort of scam? wow!

Phil Ellis

I detected gullibility. And it honestly did make me laugh, yes.

 

[PhilEllis]

I detected gullibility. And it honestly did make me laugh, yes.

 

[diverdowndh]

I wish I knew how to save this entire thread, this is really, really good. Thanks to all, the experience on the board is staggering. My very first instructor (who turned out to be a good friend ever since!) once corrected me when I called him divemaster... he jokingly made some comment about being WAY above that, and of course, instructor is certainly.
I see that it very much depends on the lds and the instructor involved. This is what I wanted to know, other experiences. I have always been told I'm a natural teacher and DM will define whether I'm good at teaching scuba or not. I do my ResQ, not this weekend but the following weekend. We do the CPR class on Friday, do the ResQ part on Saturday and Sunday. After this many posts, I'll certainly post on my completion (that's positivity, isn't it?).
I like the idea of getting included on trips for free or for discounts... that in itself would make it worth it for me! More diving!

 

[sberanek]

This is sort of on topic... do you have to do another CPR/first aid class for Dive Master if you've already done one through the Red Cross? I have to have CPR/First Aid to teach Tae Kwon Do, so I already had it when I did Rescue.

Thanks,
Shannon

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Cool!

The instructor certification is the only one that actually gives someone credibility with the public, and which provides you with any real revenue.

Nobody on this Earth really cares if you are a "divemaster," whatever that is. They want to know, "are you an instructor?" !

The only danger to these "zero to hero" programs is when the store takes on more candidates than they can offer teaching positions to. But then, that is true even in a university setting as well. That is an inherent problem with academia.

Good to hear from you, haoulee! Thanks for your brief but honest and accurate input.

While many divers do know the difference between DM and Instructor, there are still divers every month who come up to my resort SCUBA Center and ask if I'm the Dive Master. Due to the pampered nature of resort guests I try to choke down my indignation as I explain the hierarchy.

I did not go to Key Largo to get a job in the Keys, I went for the learning environment. It was a nice compliment when Capt. Billy told Capt. Joe the blond dude is the only one I'd hire out of this group.

By the way, haole is not a polite term in most island conversation. If a cute local wahine says she likes haole boys, that's ok, but most times it's used it is comparable to the ancient southern N word the SB software won't print. I'm not interested in anyone other than cute local girls calling me haole, even if they are usually not being nice.