DM Course change questions

[YoDadio]

Simon, I am not looking for a flame war with you, but I think that per chance your view here is a tad narrow. Admittedly I have not taken the DM course, let alone seen the materials. So perhaps I am missing something. But owning used copies of current materials does not seem like a material weakness, for any student in any subject, in and of itself to me. In fact, if you extrapolate this situation to other fields it seems hard to believe that every doctor, lawyer, rocket scientist, etc. must have all new books for every second of every course or by default be incompetent in their chosen profession.

I will give you that most DM, and above, are prone to keep their “upper division” materials forever. Though I have to imagine that even then, some would be prone to lending their text to a dive buddy that is ready to go pro. However, that is MOST DM, which does not even begin to address the number of wash outs that I am sure happen every year in every corner of the planet. If there aren’t any wash outs, I would have to question the validity of the whole PADI certification process.

While there is no shortage of knuckleheads in the world, bad things do happen to good people every day. Some of these good people might be separated from the all-mighty, all-knowing, magical sticker via natural disaster, fire, three year old with scissors, you name it. I would hope that nobody gets certified simply because they have paid their way through the course and have the pretty sticker to prove it. I pray that a remotely sane/competent instructor can tell which students are qualified to be a DM and do the right thing, text and sticker be darned.

I fail to see how possessing the sticker (or shiny new text books) will make one a better diver, instructor, or lover. Though it is certain to make one poorer. One either possesses the required skills and knowledge or they don’t. The texts themselves have all of the answers to the test so even if one acquires used materials with all of the quizes answers, they still must test, demonstrate the proper skill sets and knowledge, and "do their time”.

Used text books are not only a long standing tradition, but an industry to itself. I question how it even qualifies as copyright infringment. If PADI is so concerned about copyright infringement, why isn’t there a sticker for every certification course as opposed to the "upper division" courses (i.e., most expensive)? PADI playing the copyright police is a) silly, b) meritless battle, c) a great way to Put Another Dollar In.

 

[on_two_wheels]

How is it a gimmick? It is ensuring that each DM candidate has their own literature. Reproduction by copying is a breach of copywright.

Try turning up with copied material for your DM, AI, IDC, IDCS or CD courses. See how far you get.

Personally, if a person isn't willing to invest in their own professional development, I wouldn't be prepared to invest time in teaching them.

Totally disagree!!!! Do you ask your physician if he used new or used textbooks in med school? Do you really care? If they can pass the test and learn/perform the in-water skills with a high degree of proficiency, who cares if he/she used a book with notes already in it. PADI is very well known for coming up with ways to make profits....add that sticker to the list.

Edit: Todadio beat me to this one!!

 

[Simon-]

To answer your point about copywright, in EVERY PADI publication it is stated that no part can be reproduced without permission etc

Why should every dive pro have their own copies? Let's say you buy a second hand manual Are you sure there are no pages missing? Are the contents the most up to date? Any notes written in it, are they correct

Or you share a copy with someone All well and good until you go your seperate ways

Sorry but I won't be swayed on this if you want to be a dive pro buy the books for yourself

 

[divermike1011]

Simon: Totally agree!

Michael

 

[on_two_wheels]

Buying a used DM manual in no way violates copyright laws....it's not be reproduced. Remember used book stores? Damn near every book is copyrighted material. If the notes in a used one are wrong, the person fails the test or simply does their own homework, not rely on old notes. As for pages missing....they're numbered.

Again, how is using a used DM manual different than used textbooks in college?

 

[Simon-]

Buying a used DM manual in no way violates copyright laws....it's not be reproduced. Remember used book stores? Damn near every book is copyrighted material. If the notes in a used one are wrong, the person fails the test or simply does their own homework, not rely on old notes. As for pages missing....they're numbered.

Again, how is using a used DM manual different than used textbooks in college?

So when a whole section is revised, and the numbering changes, you still 100% confident you have all the pages? BTW, I am mainly referring to the instructor manual, but the principal remains. Buy your own.

 

[RonFrank]

How is it a gimmick? It is ensuring that each DM candidate has their own literature. Reproduction by copying is a breach of copywright.

Having every student own a physical copy of the books in this age is stupid. The book is out of date as soon as the next revision is out. The only people who benefit is..... PADI. Providing a online copy would make more sense, unless your PADI. They benefit when instructors have to replace out of date materials.

This is bad for the environment. Maybe there is a recycle program I do not know.

When it comes to stuff like this PADI is plain irresponsible. You can try to try and come up with reasons why PADI requires the books be physical media, but there is no good reason other than greed. Heck that does not explain it as you could charge licensing fees without the books.

Copyright you waskly wrabbit! It does not mean physical books.... we should be past this. Gawd help us all if we were instructed by someone who did not own the hard copy!

 

[Simon-]

The material is available on line. Digital version of the Instructor Manual readily available for PADI pro's.

So are the errata for the various publications. Available to download and insert into your own literature.

That is my point. You buy second hand materials, how do you know it is up to date? How do you know any revisions have been included? You don't.

Gawd help us if we are instructed by someone who doesn't even own a copy

 

[YoDadio]

We have all gotten WAY off topic. But since we are there…

I get that PADI is all about requiring Pros to keep their own copy of the course materials; a) it greases their own wheels, b) it has to serve as a good reference source for years (almost regardless of updates), and c) it helps them to better relate to their students. I would like to think that all active instructors keep abreast of all the latest and greatest info, gadgets, etc. However, that leaves any number of wash outs from around the world with CURRENT (or even near current) texts to share, sell, or give away.

From a purely practical standpoint, I doubt that method of acquiring the appropriate text(s) will have any material impact on how well the student will learn, study, and/or perform the required skill sets. As stated by others here, used textbooks are commonplace throughout the history of learning, do not violate copyright laws, and are an environmentally sound practice. Heck, a degree is not required, let alone attending law school, to become a scumbag, er um lawyer. So how does ANY text make one a better diver?

Buying the latest and greatest texts is no guarantee that the materials are error free (once upon a time suggesting the earth wasn’t the center of the universe was heresy). Any number of revisions could be so minor as to have nominal impact on one’s ability to pass the course requirements. Granted if there are SIGNIFICANT changes to the program, scientific breakthroughs, etc. it would only be prudent to require the new material(s) for future students. (An errata does not qualify, in my humble opinion.) But putting a one-year shelf life on PADI materials, REGARDLESS of any revisions, is at best a gimmick to Pass Another Dollar In.

 

[ckenst]

If you're worried about the changes to the material I'd suggest you start with the Encyclopedia of Recreational Diving which doesn't change often. You can buy it brand new for under $40 and it's the most in depth book in the DM class. It's also true it isn't an Encyclopedia - just an in depth look at most things recreational. PADI even released a DVD version (which I haven't viewed). When you're ready for the class just plunk down the big money, scan the books for any updates / changes and you'll be ahead of the game.

Good luck!