Diving with a non certified diver?
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I dived with my wife about 10 times before she was certified, she was fine with it, I taught her the basic skills, mask clear, reg recovery, share air. we were diving in BVI, max depth 45 ft, I held her hand litterally the whole time, we had a great time she went on to be an AI. I can no longer recommend it officially however.
Okay, but in your original post you didn't mention anyone (including you) teaching your dad "the basic skills, mask clear, reg recovery, share air." The other poster, @awap, also said he would be happy to take his father diving after giving him some instruction. Your hypothetical was to go diving with your father without him having any instruction beyond whatever he picked up in 1960.
Okay, but in your original post you didn't mention anyone (including you) teaching your dad "the basic skills, mask clear, reg recovery, share air." The other poster, @awap, also said he would be happy to take his father diving after giving him some instruction. Your hypothetical was to go diving with your father without him having any instruction beyond whatever he picked up in 1960.
OP
swimmer_spe
Contributor
I dived with my wife about 10 times before she was certified, she was fine with it, I taught her the basic skills, mask clear, reg recovery, share air. we were diving in BVI, max depth 45 ft, I held her hand litterally the whole time, we had a great time she went on to be an AI. I can no longer recommend it officially however.
Okay, but in your original post you didn't mention anyone (including you) teaching your dad "the basic skills, mask clear, reg recovery, share air." The other poster, @awap, also said he would be happy to take his father diving after giving him some instruction. Your hypothetical was to go diving with your father without him having any instruction beyond whatever he picked up in 1960.
When ever I dive with anyone, I go over the basics so that we are on the same page. You would not believe how many "qualified" divers either do not remember, care or know the basics.
I will not do it, but if I were stupid enough to tempt fate, I would go over everything. Would that change your answer? My answer is, not qualified, not worth the risk.
I won't speak to your situation, but if someone who has excellent knowledge of the diving skills that are taught in today's OW classes and has the ability to teach them wants to teach them to another diver and then go diving with that person, I don't see anything inherently wrong with that. Sure, the person doing the instructing is undertaking some potential liability, and the student may not have a good way to judge the risk. But I see no inherent reason why someone must have a "dive instructor" certification from a recognized agency in order to teach someone else.
Was that the original question?
OP
swimmer_spe
Contributor
In a nutshell, yes.
In the day there were no cards so it need not be a black and white answer.
Things I would consider.....
1) Was he actually an active diver or just someone goofing with the gear?
2) Does he understand the importance of the open airway? Without that fundamental he is a catastrophe waiting to happen.
3) Was/will he be comfortable in the water.
I would insist on shallow water skill drills before getting down into any real water. You probably end impressed or mortified.
If his experience and personal knowledge add up to defacto training then he may be as prepared as some new divers. On the other hand, if he survived his youthful exploits on luck alone he should seek training or another pastime.
Pete
Things I would consider.....
1) Was he actually an active diver or just someone goofing with the gear?
2) Does he understand the importance of the open airway? Without that fundamental he is a catastrophe waiting to happen.
3) Was/will he be comfortable in the water.
I would insist on shallow water skill drills before getting down into any real water. You probably end impressed or mortified.
If his experience and personal knowledge add up to defacto training then he may be as prepared as some new divers. On the other hand, if he survived his youthful exploits on luck alone he should seek training or another pastime.
Pete
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A big risk is you don't know what the new diver doesn't know. I have a couple of examples of this.
First was taking my son out in waist deep water and playing with a tank so he could see if he could submerge and want to dive. How safe is that waist deep, standing beside him very low risk so I was comfortable to give him an experience and see if he wanted to dive. Said we would first snorkel maybe 5 metres with me beside him and then we would stand and put in reg and submerge just below the water and see how he went. MISTAKE, I assumed given he can swim and has done pool work would know what snorkeling was about, he submerged and tried to breath with the snorkel totally under the water. He associated what he was doing with diving so thought he could submerge. I assumed he already knew how to snorkel.
Second was from another post here;I saw a recent example of a young guy (OW cert and just recent) who was quite happy to say he had been diving 5-6 dives per day, found his computer locking up (due to deco breaches) so was swapping it for a spare, then when the second locked up didn't bother with a computer and was diving to >40m on hooker for extended periods with no plan or deco plan etc etc. On challenging him about the very high risk his response was, well my mates all say its ok (they are not certified and are diving with him), and also stated if he gets into trouble with a buildup of the bends he will go to a deco chamber once a year to relieve the pressure as that's what his mates told him (those uncertified ones). Yes he gets pains in his shoulders and arms sometimes, etc etc . Then when I tried to explain the huge risk he was exposing himself to, and that he was probably already bent and it will get worse, he simply walked out of the shop so he didnt have to hear it. A walking dead person I would suggest, or a future crippleHere was someone who had been certified ignoring all the rules, and I believe with the potential to take a novice out with his uncertified mates and potentially kill them with his stupidity. All his uncertified mates are clearly egging him on to do all these stupid high risk diving, based on ego and stupidity. Now that's the extreme end of the scale, however an ego driven certified diver could be just as bad (per my previous post about the instructor who dived with 1 tank between 2 which cost him his life).I know using an instructor does not eliminate all the risks, however "hopefully" their additional training should prepare them better to teach and also be on the lookout for things to minimise the total risk to the new diver. Also I guess I care too much about people to take this risk on their behalf. I am not trained for this and so reluctantly would not do it. Being a DM actually exposes me more to litigation as I should know better.
First was taking my son out in waist deep water and playing with a tank so he could see if he could submerge and want to dive. How safe is that waist deep, standing beside him very low risk so I was comfortable to give him an experience and see if he wanted to dive. Said we would first snorkel maybe 5 metres with me beside him and then we would stand and put in reg and submerge just below the water and see how he went. MISTAKE, I assumed given he can swim and has done pool work would know what snorkeling was about, he submerged and tried to breath with the snorkel totally under the water. He associated what he was doing with diving so thought he could submerge. I assumed he already knew how to snorkel.
Second was from another post here;I saw a recent example of a young guy (OW cert and just recent) who was quite happy to say he had been diving 5-6 dives per day, found his computer locking up (due to deco breaches) so was swapping it for a spare, then when the second locked up didn't bother with a computer and was diving to >40m on hooker for extended periods with no plan or deco plan etc etc. On challenging him about the very high risk his response was, well my mates all say its ok (they are not certified and are diving with him), and also stated if he gets into trouble with a buildup of the bends he will go to a deco chamber once a year to relieve the pressure as that's what his mates told him (those uncertified ones). Yes he gets pains in his shoulders and arms sometimes, etc etc . Then when I tried to explain the huge risk he was exposing himself to, and that he was probably already bent and it will get worse, he simply walked out of the shop so he didnt have to hear it. A walking dead person I would suggest, or a future crippleHere was someone who had been certified ignoring all the rules, and I believe with the potential to take a novice out with his uncertified mates and potentially kill them with his stupidity. All his uncertified mates are clearly egging him on to do all these stupid high risk diving, based on ego and stupidity. Now that's the extreme end of the scale, however an ego driven certified diver could be just as bad (per my previous post about the instructor who dived with 1 tank between 2 which cost him his life).I know using an instructor does not eliminate all the risks, however "hopefully" their additional training should prepare them better to teach and also be on the lookout for things to minimise the total risk to the new diver. Also I guess I care too much about people to take this risk on their behalf. I am not trained for this and so reluctantly would not do it. Being a DM actually exposes me more to litigation as I should know better.
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