Review Diving the Avelo System

[Belzelbub]

even when diving with a dry suit in Egypt I'm nowwhere near 32kg

And that is listed as average weight, which assumes it could be quite a bit higher at the extreme end.

My weights are no where near. Exposure protection, and even regulators would be a wash as they’d both still be needed with Avelo, but since they listed the reg as part of the total, here goes. Reg and BC weights rounded up.

Reg: 3 lbs
BC: 8 lbs
Tank: 32 lbs
Weight: 6 lbs

By my calculations, that’s 49 lbs. A few pounds more than Avelo’s latest estimates for their system, and 26 lbs less than Avelo’s average weight claim. I certainly don’t see a huge need to spend a significant amount of money (cert and Jet Pack) to save 4 lbs. And it appears I’d still need to rent tanks as I’ve only seen pricing for the Jet Pack.

 

[gordonscuba]

There have been multiple times in my scuba journey when, as a way of finding out whether I would enjoy diving a new (or at least, new to me) piece of technology, I signed up for the relevant intro course or specialty course for that thing. DPVs, SCRs and CCRs come to mind as examples. In general, if a diver is wondering whether a new (or at least, new to them) scuba technology is right for them, a reasonable way to answer that question is to take the intro course on it with a knowledgeable, experienced instructor who intimately understands the technology. I don't know of any other cases of scuba technology where that was all somehow provided for free as part of a promotion, but if you hear of something like that, let me know!

 

[tridacna]

I don't know of any other cases of scuba technology where that was all somehow provided for free as part of a promotion, but if you hear of something like that, let me know!

Au contraire. In the good old days of Dutch Springs, manufacturers used to have promo days where you could try out tons of new stuff for free. And they’d throw in a hotdog and soda.

 

[SouthernSharktoothDiver]

There have been multiple times in my scuba journey when, as a way of finding out whether I would enjoy diving a new (or at least, new to me) piece of technology, I signed up for the relevant intro course or specialty course for that thing. DPVs, SCRs and CCRs come to mind as examples. In general, if a diver is wondering whether a new (or at least, new to them) scuba technology is right for them, a reasonable way to answer that question is to take the intro course on it with a knowledgeable, experienced instructor who intimately understands the technology. I don't know of any other cases of scuba technology where that was all somehow provided for free as part of a promotion, but if you hear of something like that, let me know!

My counterpoint to this is that I would argue the examples you listed (and other bits of scuba tech that also have certifications, like drysuits and sidemounting) seem a little more straightforward in their benefits. I could be wrong about that, as I wasn't involved in scuba when any of these things hit the scene, and there's always naysayers of everything, but the benefits of a rebreather, a scooter, or a drysuit seem a bit less arguable than Avelo. Like, I think anyone can clearly see how a rebreather increases your bottom time compared to open circuit, full stop. Same with a DPV. No matter how fast you can swim, a scooter is going to be faster. Avelo, on the other hand, offers better buoyancy, which many on this thread seem to think they don't need. If Avelo wishes to prove them wrong, it might want to at least consider the low cost trial option.

But as I said before, I could definitely be wrong about this, and if I am, great! I look forward to seeing where Avelo goes if it takes off.

 

[Wibble]

View attachment 850296
The above image is from a post @lowwall made on this thread on February 20th, showing Avelo's estimation of the weight of a standard diving setup at that time, and their estimate of Avelo's weight.
View attachment 850297
This is a screenshot taken direct from Avelo's website today, July 9th, 2024. Notice anything weird?

Those numbers grate; would like to see the true like-for-like numbers as this is physics.

Firstly, the same amount of gas. The "standard" tank is the ali80, certainly in the tropics. An ali80 is pretty neutral in water being heavy when full and floaty when empty; it contains 206 (bar) x 11 (litres) = 2,266 litres of gas. It weighs 14kg empty plus 2kg of gas.

The Avelo has a 300 bar carbon fibre tank weighing around 11kg plus the two valves (and pump + battery). This includes a bladder that separates the gas from the water which is pumped in reducing the gas space in the tank. Therefore the tank must take 300 bar but is only filled to LESS than that (otherwise pumping in 3kg water = 3 litres space meaning the pressure increases to the maximum of 300 bar) --- how will the diver be buoyant at the start of the dive so they don't drop in and sink?

Equivalent tank size = 77 - 106 cubic ft / 2,180 - 3,000 liters**

This means that you start the tank with LESS than 300 bar and pump in the water to push it up to a maximum of 300 bar. You can only do a handful of kg buoyancy change (each kg is one litre of water). Call that 4 kg maximum buoyancy change (when full) == 4 litres, the cylinder's supposed to be 10 litre meaning 6 litres are left = 6 x 300 = 1,800 litres. Or, being generous, you use a 12 litre 300 bar tank, so 12 litres minus 4 litres = 8 litres. x 300 (bar) = 2,400 litres maximum.


Secondly the weight required. We're talking about "expert" buoyancy here as it is critical that an Avelo user knows what weight is required and no more. Take that "expert" and do the same in normal diving kit and how much weight do they need -- it is nowhere near 16kg.


TL;DR

When diving in the Caribbean a couple of months ago, I used:

• Ali 80 tank - 14kg/31.3lbs + 2kg air
• Regs (same on both systems) - 2kg
• Ali backplate, single tank adapter, 18lb doughnut wing - 2kg
• 1.5kg/4lbs weight (in tank pouches)

Total weight for that lot...2+2+14+2+1.5 = 21.5kg -- an easy lift. That is less than the Avelo and nowhere near the 32 kg claimed by the marketing guff on the Avelo site.

Of course, if we were comparing like with like, then we'd be diving

• A carbon main tank. And then adding a load of additional weight to sink the thing. The Avelo uses the weight of the battery + pump as balast
• Specific training on weighting and buoyancy as the Avelo has very limited buoyancy so the diver cannot be overweighted

I guess the old adage applies: don't argue with marketing people as they're so practised at "alternate truths".

BTW I doubt the Avelo will be CE certified as there's insufficient buoyancy available. Why do wings/BCDs have so much buoyancy? (to keep the diver afloat with their face clear of the water)

 

[Germie]

I know some divers that need 15kg of weight in winter when using a drysuit+ 490 grams underwear+200grams heating system. But then this is not the water were the Avelo is designed for as it is written warm water, wetsuit.

But on average in drysuit it is 10kg with a steel tank on their back.
This will not be 0-3kg with the Avelo system.

My heaviest single tank configuration I dove with was an 18 liter steel tank. 23.7kg for the tank. My heavy bcd was around 5kg, and I dove with 2 first stages (cold water equipment), so then it will be around 3.5kg for the regs. So then it could be 32kg alltogether for the equipment.
But this is not the average single tank configuration.

It would be nice if all that people here that do recalculations get the option to try for free the Avelo, and then mention how much weight was needed with a normal ali tank and then with the Avelo. In both cases very proper weighting and still be able to stay under without problems at the end of the dive.

Also trying negative entries, waves and currents with the Avelo would be nice.

 

[jborg]

Yeah, I just weighed my doubles setup; 2x7L 300bar, full, with manifold, plate, regulators, cutters, backup light it's 32.5 kg total. So I guess that's about an average single tank setup. (I add 4kg of lead for cold water drysuit diving, certainly not necessary if I were to dive this in a wetsuit...)

 

[lowwall]

When diving in the Caribbean a couple of months ago, I used:

• Ali 80 tank - 14kg/31.3lbs + 2kg air
• Regs (same on both systems) - 2kg
• Ali backplate, single tank adapter, 18lb doughnut wing - 2kg
• 1.5kg/4lbs weight (in tank pouches)

Total weight for that lot...2+2+14+2+1.5 = 21.5kg -- an easy lift. That is less than the Avelo and nowhere near the 32 kg claimed by the marketing guff on the Avelo site.

I've been commenting on this since I first saw their weight savings claims. For example:

People trying to sell this keep comparing it to someone using an AL80 plus a bulky BCD. If system weight is super important to you, then the appropriate comparison is an HP80 and a backplate with streamlined wing. My rig with a steel plate and regs weighs 10 pounds, add 29 for a HP80 with valve and I'm at 39 with no need for additional lead in warm water.

So I'm 3-5 lbs lighter out of the water. Meaning the only advantage of the Avelo is you don't have to think about managing the air bubble in the wing as you change levels. But if I'm properly weighted, the only time I ever have to think about this is at the beginning of an all-shallow dive. Something like Blue Heron Bridge.

I can't see trading all the flexibility and relatively low cost of a rig like mine for this minor advantage.

I can't help but think the creator of this contraption decided to solve his annoyance at being overweighted in a bulky BCD with AL80 without realizing the answer was already out there.

 

[Wibble]

IAlso trying negative entries, waves and currents with the Avelo would be nice.

@inquis - thanks for pointing out my error. Have removed this comment.

 

[hammet]

For a certification, the cost is not bad compared to other certifications. However, as they are trying to sell certifications and units, Avelo has the burden to try to convince me that I need to get this. They haven’t done that. At least not for me.

Their marketing focuses mainly on weight and effortless buoyancy. The numbers they use for the standard system weight seems significantly higher than anything I’ve used recently. I just did a few of my typical dives. As usual, I established neutral at depth, then for the most part left it alone until it was time to ascend. And, if necessary, I had buoyancy to spare as my BC has 35lbs of lift available, and when not fully inflated, it’s not in the way.

So to answer your last question. “How much would I like to pay for this experience?” $0. They haven’t convinced me that I need to part with any money based on the marketing so far.

But it's..."sublime".
Whatever that means