Review Diving the Avelo System

[scubadada]

Hi @Jrloyd

I think Avelo could do a better job of describing the contents of the one day Recreational Avelo Diver course so that divers will know what to expect for that day. The only prerequisite, other than age, for the RAD is to be open water certified. Avelo must have their own standards for certifying divers to dive with their equipment. It is a shame that you could not do 2 more guided dives after your certification, it might have been a different experience.

 

[Jai Bar]

When I first read the review, I was intrigued and my first reaction was that I must try it.

Then, reading again through the thread, I am not sure this diving platform brings any revelation to scuba- it aims to solve a problem that is not really a problem, and in the way creating more potential problems. Pumps, batteries, inner bladder, tubings and fittings for the water pumping system, positive buoyancy (the lack of) at surface? Requiring a snorkel and so on? and for what? To avoid the traditional BCD/weight ballast system that has been proven since the days of Archimedes?

A traditional BCD does not require pump nor batteries, can be inflataed orally, and an experienced diver that is properly weighted almost does not use the BCD. Sure, depends on wetsuit thickness, drysuit etc. But in general l, this is something that divers do without having to think about it.

Oh, and it doesn't matter if the weight is some pieces of lead or water stored inside some entrapment: kicking fins with a larger mass is more effort anyway, so I doubt it has any substantial benefit in air consumption only because part of the dive is done with less water pumped in (i.e. less mass to push). Maybe a graph showing the actual mass of water stored in the inner bladder throughiut the dive can make a better comparison versus having constant weights?

 

[lowwall]

I have to wonder if the inventor would have bothered if he'd been introduced to a single tank backplate (like the DSS or Freedom plate) and compact wing before starting out on his journey.

Seriously, the problems this is meant to solve are primarily those of an overweighted diver in a bulky and buoyant conventional BCD. My rig with with an HP100 weighs the same as Avelo once you add the extra 3 or 4 pounds of ballast Avelo apparently requires, has more gas, costs less, is more compact, offers more positive buoyancy at the surface, and requires no battery charging.

The only "negative" relative to Avelo is that I have to spend 15 seconds during the descent tuning my buoyancy. Like the Avelo, I have to make one or two adjustments during the dive to counteract the additional buoyancy from breathing down the gas and then one more during the ascent.

I guess if I radically changed my depth up and down during the course of the dive, the Avelo would be more convenient. But that's not something you would want to do anyway.

 

[Jai Bar]

I have to wonder if the inventor would have bothered if he'd been introduced to a single tank backplate (like the DSS or Freedom plate) and compact wing before starting out on his journey.

Seriously, the problems this is meant to solve are primarily those of an overweighted diver in a bulky and buoyant conventional BCD. My rig with with an HP100 weighs the same as Avelo once you add the extra 3 or 4 pounds of ballast Avelo apparently requires, has more gas, costs less, is more compact, offers more positive buoyancy at the surface, and requires no battery charging.

The only "negative" relative to Avelo is that I have to spend 15 seconds during the descent tuning my buoyancy. Like the Avelo, I have to make one or two adjustments during the dive to counteract the additional buoyancy from breathing down the gas and then one more during the ascent.

I guess if I radically changed my depth up and down during the course of the dive, the Avelo would be more convenient. But that's not something you would want to do anyway.

Reminds me of an engineer at work who just finished his OW certification and was very concerned about the buoyancy system. In his point of view, having to manually adjust was something antiquated and he wanted to develop an automatic leveling BCD that will keep the diver hovering at constant depth( I guess he had found it difficult to master), just like manual vs automatic car gear. He buggered with a lot with ideas how to solve this "problem", eventually he got proficient enough after some 10 dives that he understood how futile the whole idea was to begin with. Never heard about it ever since.

 

[mdwalter]

It didn’t help that our instructor seemed annoyed anytime we asked a question to clarify a question or procedure. Then it became annoying to us when he didn’t seem to understand how we couldn’t understand what he was saying. Maybe a slight language barrier? I don’t know but he didn’t seem like he was having a good time.

Don't hold one instructor's bad attitude and ineloquence against the system or even against the training standard. I would say just hold that against the instructor, personally.

 

[Wibble]

Out of curiosity…

Would a moderately experienced diver with normal core skills—buoyancy, trim and finning—get any benefits from diving with an Avelo compared with diving their normal BCD or backplate and wing?

Avelo, from their website, claims:

1. Effortless buoyancy control
2. Dramatically improved air consumption
3. Significant reduction in equipment weight and bulkiness
4. Increased air capacity (up to 30% more gas capacity)

Our "moderately experienced diver" would have effortless buoyancy control and low air consumption because they’d be correctly weighted (a requirement for using the Avelo). Their kit would be minimalist and would use sufficient gas for the dive, be that an ali80, s105 or a steel 300bar/4350psi (good luck with getting that filled to capacity).

Weight wise, assuming a warm water dive, a BCD or backplate+harness is used, same on both systems. A BCD isn’t heavy (circa 3kg/7lbs). Both systems need minimal lead weight, just sufficient to overcome the intrinsic buoyancy. The Avelo tech (shell, valves, bladder, pump, battery, waterproofing, etc.) must weigh something, more than the traditional kit.

If diving in a resort or popular fly-to location, it’s common for the boat to supply a couple of tanks—typically ali80s—as part of the dive fee. These are quickly swapped between dives. The Avelo has an internal fixed tank and cannot be swapped, needing filling or the whole unit swapping over. The boat/rental company would need to invest vast sums into the Avelo system, i.e. Avelo rental will be much more expensive to cover the capital costs.

Small thought about tank filling, the Avelo tank is surrounded by the bladder and outer cover which effectively insulates the tank. This implies a Avelo will take longer to fill than a naked tank which can be dunked in water to cool during filling. Tank and valve inspection/testing will be more difficult and costly on the Avelo as the shroud and bladder will need removing.

Maybe the Avelo mk 2 will use a couple of solid tubes strapped like pony bottles either side of the tank (needs one either side for balance). BTW a litre of water weighs about 1kg/2.2lbs. So a pair of 3 litre buoyancy compensator tubes would provide around 5kg of lift. Look at a photo of a rebreather for an example of the amount of space this takes up.

It’s amazing how simple a wing or BCD is by comparison. They also provide a lot more buoyancy on the surface to keep the diver's head above the water.

If only all divers were trained to dive correctly weighted (as is required to dive a Avelo) and, better still, all dive operators encouraged or enforced weight checks, especially for people requesting too much lead.

 

[Germie]

Out of curiosity…

Would a moderately experienced diver with normal core skills—buoyancy, trim and finning—get any benefits from diving with an Avelo compared with diving their normal BCD or backplate and wing?

Avelo, from their website, claims:

1. Effortless buoyancy control
2. Dramatically improved air consumption
3. Significant reduction in equipment weight and bulkiness
4. Increased air capacity (up to 30% more gas capacity)

Our "moderately experienced diver" would have effortless buoyancy control and low air consumption because they’d be correctly weighted (a requirement for using the Avelo). Their kit would be minimalist and would use sufficient gas for the dive, be that an ali80, s105 or a steel 300bar/4350psi (good luck with getting that filled to capacity).

Weight wise, assuming a warm water dive, a BCD or backplate+harness is used, same on both systems. A BCD isn’t heavy (circa 3kg/7lbs). Both systems need minimal lead weight, just sufficient to overcome the intrinsic buoyancy. The Avelo tech (shell, valves, bladder, pump, battery, waterproofing, etc.) must weigh something, more than the traditional kit.

If diving in a resort or popular fly-to location, it’s common for the boat to supply a couple of tanks—typically ali80s—as part of the dive fee. These are quickly swapped between dives. The Avelo has an internal fixed tank and cannot be swapped, needing filling or the whole unit swapping over. The boat/rental company would need to invest vast sums into the Avelo system, i.e. Avelo rental will be much more expensive to cover the capital costs.

Small thought about tank filling, the Avelo tank is surrounded by the bladder and outer cover which effectively insulates the tank. This implies a Avelo will take longer to fill than a naked tank which can be dunked in water to cool during filling. Tank and valve inspection/testing will be more difficult and costly on the Avelo as the shroud and bladder will need removing.

Maybe the Avelo mk 2 will use a couple of solid tubes strapped like pony bottles either side of the tank (needs one either side for balance). BTW a litre of water weighs about 1kg/2.2lbs. So a pair of 3 litre buoyancy compensator tubes would provide around 5kg of lift. Look at a photo of a rebreather for an example of the amount of space this takes up.

It’s amazing how simple a wing or BCD is by comparison. They also provide a lot more buoyancy on the surface to keep the diver's head above the water.

If only all divers were trained to dive correctly weighted (as is required to dive a Avelo) and, better still, all dive operators encouraged or enforced weight checks, especially for people requesting too much lead.

First, the 30 percent extra gas is just because of a 300 bar tank. That tanks also work with a normal bcd.

Dramatically improved gas consumption. I use 10 to 12 liter per minute. How much is dramatically? Can I go to 8 liter? Or less? If I only go to 9.5 to 11.5, is is not dramatically reduced.

About the weights, they already state you need weights if you want to go drysuitdiving. Some bcds have a lot of padding, so you need more weights. But with a backplate this is already gone.
The avelo is lighter above water? How much?
300 bar tanks are heavier than 200 bar tanks. The regulator itself will be the same. The tank is more. So the system is lighter than a bcd?
For travelling it doenst look an option.

I stay sceptic. I really dont like the idea of another course, not needed in my eyes. If you know what bouyancy is, it wil work here also. And it is a recreational piece of equipment. If you ever go tech, it start again with air inflation for bouyancy.

So nice to see a new invention, but as said, I think it will fade away silent in a few years.

 

[Wibble]

From their video...

Walking across a beach, she not wearing trousers, so a warm water dive -- although judging by that beach, it's going to be a long walk!

Time for a weight table...

	Conventional kit	Avelo system
Harness + ali backplate	Conventional 3kg / 6.6lbs	Super lightweight 2kg / 4.4lbs
Wing (e.g. Halcyon Eclipse)	2kg / 4.4lbs	n/a
Regs	2kg / 4.4lbs	2kg / 4.4lbs
Tank	Ali 80 14.5kg / 32lbs	Unknown! Assume Faber 10 litre steel 300bar 15.5kg / 35lbs
Avelo gubbins (outer carbon cover, battery, bladder, pump, valves, hoses, controls, etc...)	n/a	Unknown! Guess (low) at... 3kg / 6.6lbs
Total:​	21.5kg / 47lbs	22.5kg / 50lbs

Have left off air as they're the same.

They seem to weigh the same and are nothing like 13.6kg / 30lbs different.

If I was diving in warm water, I'd use about 1kg/2lbs to 2kg/4lbs of lead.

According to the marketing gimp making the video, for some reason the woman on the left of that picture not wearing a wetsuit needs another 11kg/25lbs of lead to sink.

 

[TheCatFish]

From their video...
View attachment 827953
Walking across a beach, she not wearing trousers, so a warm water dive -- although judging by that beach, it's going to be a long walk!

Time for a weight table...

	Conventional kit	Avelo system
Harness + ali backplate	Conventional 3kg / 6.6lbs	Super lightweight 2kg / 4.4lbs
Wing (e.g. Halcyon Eclipse)	2kg / 4.4lbs	n/a
Regs	2kg / 4.4lbs	2kg / 4.4lbs
Tank	Ali 80 14.5kg / 32lbs	Unknown! Assume Faber 10 litre steel 300bar 15.5kg / 35lbs
Avelo gubbins (outer carbon cover, battery, bladder, pump, valves, hoses, controls, etc...)	n/a	Unknown! Guess (low) at... 3kg / 6.6lbs
Total:​	21.5kg / 47lbs	22.5kg / 50lbs

Have left off air as they're the same.

They seem to weigh the same and are nothing like 8kg / 20lbs

If I was diving in warm water, I'd use about 1kg/2lbs to 2kg/4lbs of lead.

According to the marketing gimp making the video, for some reason the woman on the left of that picture not wearing a wetsuit needs another 11kg/25lbs of lead to sink.

Had me at gubbins.

 

[Still Kicking]

Had me at gubbins.

A great word that sadly got lost somewhere in the transatlantic crossing.