Diving incident at Eagles Nest Sink
- Thread starter DiverGirl1972
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In aircraft accident investigation a lot of these same factors pop up. All the internet speculation etc etc along with the legal and humanitarian concerns.
However we have a culture in aviation of releasing safety critical info as soon as it becomes available to those who may be at risk. That culture is a symbiotic one though. If I release an interim finding along the lines of "here's this thing we found out, you might want to check if it's a thing that affects you ", that statement is considered exempt from litigation and the receivers understand that it doesn't mean that that factor was the only thing going.
Typically an NTSB report can take 5-10 years to be published but any safety info is disseminated within (often) hours of discovery.
I would love to see that culture in diving but it requires a maturity which this industry and hobby doesn't have yet. If we didn't climb on FB and chime in with half formed opinions on every bit of info that was released people might be more inclined to release that info.
If we did release safety info when available then they would be less likely to do the half-assed speculation thing.
I think @NetDoc and @kensuf are both right. The vultures hanging around ghoulishly and the close mouthed Investigators are both very frustrating but it is OUR fault as a group.
Edit: I don't believe either of them belongs to those groups. I believe that those groups are what leads to the miscommunications and frustration that they are feeling
That all being said, this is the quickest I've ever seen useful info being released. That "Statement of facts" is a wonderful release and should serve as an example of how things are done. If we don't go and play judge and jury with those facts and spout off, maybe they will be more likely to do the same in future.
However we have a culture in aviation of releasing safety critical info as soon as it becomes available to those who may be at risk. That culture is a symbiotic one though. If I release an interim finding along the lines of "here's this thing we found out, you might want to check if it's a thing that affects you ", that statement is considered exempt from litigation and the receivers understand that it doesn't mean that that factor was the only thing going.
Typically an NTSB report can take 5-10 years to be published but any safety info is disseminated within (often) hours of discovery.
I would love to see that culture in diving but it requires a maturity which this industry and hobby doesn't have yet. If we didn't climb on FB and chime in with half formed opinions on every bit of info that was released people might be more inclined to release that info.
If we did release safety info when available then they would be less likely to do the half-assed speculation thing.
I think @NetDoc and @kensuf are both right. The vultures hanging around ghoulishly and the close mouthed Investigators are both very frustrating but it is OUR fault as a group.
Edit: I don't believe either of them belongs to those groups. I believe that those groups are what leads to the miscommunications and frustration that they are feeling
That all being said, this is the quickest I've ever seen useful info being released. That "Statement of facts" is a wonderful release and should serve as an example of how things are done. If we don't go and play judge and jury with those facts and spout off, maybe they will be more likely to do the same in future.
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NTSB reports are usually released within one year. Your point about discussion speculation or whatever happens almost immediately is correct. You will not end that in aviation, events like this, well-publicized car crashes, terrorist attacks, etc.
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Agreed. The speculation starts almost immediately, however as pilots we might speculate like crazy (often through worry that whatever "got them" might be about to "get" us) but we (IME) dont harass the investigators for not releasing everything immediately, since we trust that anything that is critical to us will be released as soon as it is possible to do so.
Also, I stand corrected, the NTSB reports are mostly released within a year, I was going on what I heard from a Go-Team member who conducted my AAI course 15 years ago. I believe he was referring to some very prominent accidents which had taken several years to be released as a final report, as opposed to the preliminary finding reports that get released much quicker.
The subject under discussion at the time was exactly the issue of how and when to release safety critical info in a way so as to prevent other mishaps without creating a s***-storm for the various legal bodies and families later.
Amen bro. If I could hit "like" a hundred times on your post, I would have. I would love for the cave police to read that a few times and let it sink in.
Personally, I think speculation is healthy. I don't dive a dry suit very often. I own one, but I like diving like a manatee with minimal thermal protection except my bioprene. The guy floating in the dark apart from bis rebreather simply upsets me. I can picture him struggling against that drysuit trying to get deep so he can retrieve his rebreather and live. Obviously, the panic the confusion and even the dark figured into all of this, but I was completely floored when one of my mentors suggested that a finger in the neck seal might have saved his life. Dayum. What a simple, simple solution, and one I probably wouldn't have thought of in the panic of the moment. I'm sure that a number of people would chime in with "Well, of course, Pete..." and I would roll my eyes. I've never taken a side mount or dry suit class, but so far no instructor I have talked to has come up with that solution to this scenario. Dayum. You can be sure that it's in my tool box of possible solutions now.
PfcAJ
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KDAD
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Mine too. Pete describing a finger in the neck of dry suit is something that any diver can relate to and take away from threads like this. That is were the value is. Doesn't matter if you are cave certified or only ow. Many things can be learned or reminded of in cases like this. A single sentence here or there in many pages of the thread is all that is needed for a diver to pick something up of value to them.
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