Diving in the Panama City area

[PatMyGreen]

I expect my DMs to help load/unload the boat, be personable to the customers, be my second eyes and ears watching over everyone gear up to see who is anxious, be able to rescue swim the people who get lost back to the boat, tie us into the spot and untie us from the spot (no mooring balls up here), give a conditions report, and handle any gear malfunction a customer has quicklt and with a smile. The fact that they all have college degrees, are well read, show up on time and drug free is a given too.

 

[mike_s]

Pat, when you you getting your Newton? ( I think you said tha somewhere...)

 

[jviehe]

I actually pay my DM/deckhand a decent trip rate, $75. Other charters that I am familiar with pay only $25 or not at all and the rest comes from tips. I think they are the best people I could hope to get and I pay them as such. Obviously the inspected vessels that take out more than 6 can be pretty lucrative if everyone tips 20% even if the deckhand only makes $25 from the charter as wage.

Not paying the DM/deckhand a wage is another way of cutting costs so that the boat can still run with a small number of people onboard. To break it down to the basic economics a trip to the Bart costs me $100 in fuel (marina gas is $5.00) and $75 to the deckhand. So I need 3 paying divers to beat operating costs before we talk about insurance ($4000), dockage ($5400) and maintenance ($you don't want to know$). Don't forget sales tax takes 6% of my side too. So it would be far cheaper to trailer my boat, run uninsured and not have a deckhand, there are some guys that do it here!!! Hell now I want to be a deckhand, he is making more money than me!!! In seriousness, hopefully you can see the temptation to not pay a DM by running those numbers. Worth noting is that those inspected vessels have about the same yearly cost and operating expenses but they have to pay a Captain as well since none of the owners are running them.

I feel like I should say that to me good tips are a bonus but tips in general are customary.

Personally I tend to overtip (>20%) both eating in a restaurant or on a charter unless I feel I have been neglected or worse. This is probably because I waited tables for 8 years while I was in high school and college (yes it took alittle longer than it should have to get out of college!) and the service industry is rough unless you are in a 5 star or high end establishment. If you treat others with respect and are rational you are not representative of the public at large. Fortunately divers tend to be of a higher caliber person as a whole. but I have really digressed at this point.

Sounds like you do it the ideal way. You pay a good wage and then they get to earn their tips. But with most OPs tips are basically the DMs wage paid directly by the customer.

 

[RaginCajun]

Guys,

Thanks a million for all of the good advice and general banter. It's been eductional and quite informative for me. I too have worked in the service industry in my ~7 yrs of college and appreciate that everyone deserves to be treated fairly, respectfully and earn a decent wage.

A few more questions that will help me be a better patron;
Define DM & deck hand a little better.

Here's why; take Scuba Tech & the Sea Cobra over in Destin. When diving with them you may hire a DM for ~$25 through the shop. I did this for my first gulf dive and in a sense it was worth it (my weight belt fell off on the decent and he kept me from making an uncontrolled ascent) he also toured us around the wreck and tried to point out interesting stuff. He acted as a security blanket if you will. I paid $25 up front to the shop for this and shared him with 3 other divers.

Now I can clearly see that the guys running around the boat setting and retrieving anchor, cutting up fruit for us were the deck hands.

Accordingly, on a $75 two tank dive I can appreciate that you tip these guys or tip the boat (I assume that they'll tip share..)

So having paid the DM through the shop do you tip the deck hands and the DM again or is it ok to tip the deck hands only? Now comes the question of how much? 20% of $75 is $15, is this acceptable? Also, did I miss anyone? What if I hadn't paid a DM there would probably be someone on board from the shop geared up and diving with the group....? right?

Take another 6 pack out of Panama City as previously mentioned. This time it's just a Captain and a "DM". I refer to him as "DM" because this time, he ties the boat to the wreck and goes about his check out dive with his student. No direct interaction with me, I'm a self sufficient diver capable of rigging up my own tank etc, so this is a clear difference in my mind than the other DM above.

What is the gratuity expectation here? Same as the deck hand as before? More? Ok, what if it's me & the wife, I'm assuming tipx2?

Any difference in this custom with a spear fishing charter?

I hope you don't treat this as a stupid question, I just want to make sure I didn't piss anyone off.

I certainly welcome your guidance and feedback.

And yes, I do plan to dive with Dive Locker again when I get a chance. No ill will in respect to last summer's annoying trip to the gas station and boat trailering situation. ...only problem is that there are alot of choices of good Dive Ops in the Panama City Beach area.

OH, one more thing. Next time I'm down, Beers on me for the good advise...I figured I can learn a year's worth of diving and spear fishing advice over a few beers with you guys.

 

[mike_s]

Tip for the service you feel you get.... If you get good service, tip well. If you don't get good service, then tip less (or don't tip). But don't feel obligated to tip for crappy service.


for example, One trip out of Panama City, the deckhand forgot to tie off the anchor line when they thew it over the side and lost it off the side of the boat. (they must have done this before because they had a float tied to it). but they didn't have a boat hook to pick it up and they tried for 20 minutes before the captain had the "bright idea" of running over the float/line and letting the deckhand pick it up as it popped out the back of the boat.... well it didn't pop out. in a moment we feel the boat stop drifting, abruptly turn in the wind and stop. we were tied into the wreck... by the props on the bottom of the dive boat. the anchor line was wrapped around the bottom of boat prop shaft.

we spent the next hour waiting while the captain and the deckhand both got in the water (leaving no crew on the boat) to cut off the line. Like I said, they left no one on the boat. a customer/passenger could have gone over and cranked the engines while they were hanging on the shaft in front of the props. talk about a serious safety issue....

anyway.... I learned from others on the boat that they had the same problem the day before and lost the anchor line that day only to find it with the props again... oh well. you would have figured he would have learned by then.

other problems occured that trip also...

needless to say, the crew got no tips that trip from anyone.

but never fear folks, the captain wasn't employed at that dive op after that weekend. I've been on that boat/operation since then and had good service, so I consider that an isolated incident.

 

[PatMyGreen]

Mike, the Newton is scheduled for October 31st pick up and It will probably take the Coast Guard a month to certify it as an inspected vessel from there. So it will be a really spacious 6 pack until the paperwork settles. The hot water showers and enclosed cabin should keep Winter diving as comfy as possible.

Tip for the service you feel you get.... If you get good service, tip well. If you don't get good service, then tip less (or don't tip). But don't feel obligated to tip for crappy service.

Good advice, but I would add that you should tell the Captain or shop manager if service was poor or could be improved. I would want to know if the guy working for me wasn performing well and I wasn't somehow aware of it.

RC has again raised some great things to know. Certainly nothing dumb or offensive! My deckhands are all certified Divemasters and I only have one of them to help run the boat with me at a time (subject to change once the big boat gets here as 10+ people can be a handful depending on needs).They are expected to both rolls, with the exception that they don't dive with someone unless it is apparent they need the supervision or have asked ahead of time. 4 bounces and 2 dives is alot of stress on the body and we try to avoid needing to do that. Some other ops only have a "bouncer" deckhand who chains them in to the spot but has no special training or title. Still others have distinct Divemasters and deckhands with clearly defined separate responsibilities. If you got a DM to give you a personal tour for only $25 I would say you got a great deal, PADI calls that discover local diving and recommends a charge of $75 if I am not mistaken. I would throw that person at least a $5 and if they saved the day by being Johny on the spot during a buoyancy problem maybe a $20 but there isn't any clear etiquette except 15-20% of what you paid for the service. I would tip the deckhands too (based on what the trip rate only was) in that situation. Definitely x2 if the wife was on your tab too. It should be the same on a spearing charter but I would expect the deckhand/DM to help during the hunt if they are diving too and not just be off hunting on their own for free (Captain and Crew aren't allowed bag limits on alot of fish anyway).

Sometimes the smaller independent 6 pack will have an instructor be the DM so he can ride for free without eating up a "passenger" space. But if there are people on the trip that aren't his students they are apt to be ignored... like you were. In my mind he is not working for you and is getting paid and I would feel the strong urge to tip unless he actually helped in some way. The fun part about all this all boils down to insurance. Most companies that cover a charter only cover what happens in the boat. So if someone gets hurt outside of the boat like during a dive, they aren't covered (the op isn't covered.... liability). But active Divemasters do have coverage for all divers they are "supervising" which you can do from the surface as far as insurance is concerned. I suspect that is why alot of deckhands are referred to as DMs even if they aren't performing true DM duties (they are, but only on paper). The only real catch here is that they have to be paid as DMs for there services for their insurance to cover an accident. Which would leave those ops not paying the DMs anything at all but tips technically exposed as a result.

So in summary DM is pretty subjectively applied and it may be a good question to ask the op in question, "In what capacity will the DM be working." I think I will clarify that on my website so potential customers of mine will at least know what the deal is. Clear as mud right.

I will talk about spearfishing with anyone at anytime for probably far longer than said person would like to. Its pretty much why I gave up my office life and became a boat Captain.

 

[mike_s]

Mike, the Newton is scheduled for October 31st

Hopefully you won't run into any delays. I think the Dive Locker boat got delayed from the factory several times for example...

The hot water showers and enclosed cabin should keep Winter diving as comfy as possible.

that should be nice. when you say enclosed cabins, are you going to be just the area under the flybridge and v-berth area? should be nice.

I'd say put a sun shade over the rest of the rear of the boat, but for a dive captain that limits visibility from the flybridge of dive operations as the aft of the boat in the ladder re-entry area.

Good advice, but I would add that you should tell the Captain or shop manager if service was poor or could be improved. I would want to know if the guy working for me wasn performing well and I wasn't somehow aware of it.

In the trip above with the problems our trip leader definately went and spoke to the shop/boat owner. I can say I think they took care of the problem.

I can add to your above quoted that if you had a really good trip then you should tell the shop owner or boat captain also. If they do something bad they'll hear it 10 times more likely than if the did something good. so hearing good business reports from customers is always welcomed.

I suspect that is why alot of deckhands are referred to as DMs even if they aren't performing true DM duties (they are, but only on paper). The only real catch here is that they have to be paid as DMs for there services for their insurance to cover an accident.

I thought about pointing out that a lot of the 'boat crew/deckhands' referred to as Dive masters aren't really dive masters. they are just working as deckhands, who might dive and tie in, but haven't done any formal DiveMaster training. But I didn't want to speak for the PCB captains as I wasn't sure what their crews actually were.


I think it's fair to ask the captain what their crew role is. and also fair to ask if the crew works for "tips only". Of course the capt could be a little untruthful in order to get his crew bigger tips (and him not to have to pay them as much out of his pocket).

 

[PatMyGreen]

We are pretty much on the exact same page with the boat setup. I already negotiated a pretty stiff penalty for anything later than 10-31-08. I was waiting on the Fintastic to arrive as much as Tony was, as I had quit my job to be his Captain. I was without an income for about two months as a result of waiting for her to be ready. Not making that mistake again. Honestly I dealt with the guys at Newton throughout the construction process and quite abit afterward, great people.

You are also right on about the shade versus visibility issue. I am okay with the standard setup for shade given that backing her into a slip even from the flybridge is already involving abit if the force instead of the eyeballs. I am at the ladder when everyone is coming back aboard though, exception being when a set of bubbles "wanders off."

The enclosed cabin will be a backwall where the sidewalls end on the standard setup.

 

[Yarbrough]

Hey guys,

Just to put in my two cents, I used to bounce for the six packs here, never for our big boats as they have dedicated "Dive Masters" who are well trained and qualified and insured PADI pros. When bouncing though, I often went along in an instructional capacity, and did not expect or ask for tips. I also expect "divers" to be self sufficient because we cover how to dive in the class, and all of my students come out capable of assembling their gear and getting in the water without any more help than what they get from their buddy. So as a deck hand/ DM, I probably made a poor impression on many divers because I did expect them to take care of themselves. I mean I'd take fins when they were coming back on board, and I would check air as they were going off, and at the end of the trip, I always... always always make sure I help haul tanks, something I do even now when I get the chance to go out on the Fintastic or the Narcosis, which I rarely do due to lack of space. I don't know how other Instructors feel about it, but when I'm on the boat teaching, my class is the first priority, and my only concern. They are the ones I am trying to shape into good bubble blowers, the certified guys shouldn't have a problem falling off of a boat on their own.

Now, saying all of that, I'll go on to say I know a lot of divers skills are not up to snuff... Come see me. We'll take care of that.

Todd

 

[trucker girl]

Wow, after reading through this thread I'm not sure I want to deal with the hassle of going diving...

I'll be in Panama City Beach June 21-27. I put a thread in here somewhere...

My backup plan if I can't find someone to do any shore dives is to instabuddy on a boat trip, but if anyone has advice for that in addition to what's been said here (other than beware of instabuddies), I'd appreciate it. I'd rather pay a DM to dive with me than to instabuddy- bad instabuddy experiences are universal, good ones are rare, right? lol. So if anyone wants to meet up for a boat dive, I'm game.