Diving in normandy france

[afieldofblue]

The crossover is the answer to all the issues - PADI Rescue, Deep and do a few exercises. We did ours in Belgium (Rochefontaine).

Generally about €300 and a couple of weekends diving.

Conversion Rescue Diver PADI - Niveau 3 FFESSM avec Voyage-Plongée.com

Yep - I did this as well but was already training twice a week as N2 then N3 in a French fed club - just skipped the N2 exam and did the crossover Rescue to N3 in a commercial structure, and also chose to do the RIFAP dive emergency management module. Was more like 600 euros for me though.

We did have a 3 hour written theory exam though (not a multiple choice questionnaire) - I also "guided", ie led an automous group of 3 at 50 m with deco (instructor was on trimix ) for the autonomy part, and did quite a few rescue exercises at 40 m (the most important one being the controlled assisted ascent at roughly 10/12 m per minute from 40 m to the surface using the BCD only, also managing breathlessness issues, quite different from Padi training for instance).

Definitely worth it for diving in France, and also for the approach to rescue techniques for non CMAS/BSAC divers, very thorough - I'd say in a commercial structure it's not that different from a Padi course (ie you do the exercise a few times then done), but in a club you can train twice a week to build up automatic reflexes, and this training has been useful in quite a few situations.

 

[chrisch]

Just a note to the OP if you are still reading - the wind looks much better on the latest forecast and the w/e of 17/18 shows a really good forecast. By the Tuesday it is showing as back to bad and now westerly.

Really a good idea to keep your plans flexible. I do hope you get to dive some good sites. The following w/e is looking good too, but these long range forecasts are often a bit off.

 

[Diver0001]

Sorry, but that's wrong. OWD and AOWD are both FFESSM Level 1 or CMAS *. Rescue Diver is Level 2 / ** and DM is Level 3 / ***. The FFESSM also knows a Level 4 that doesn't really exist in other CMAS Branches and has no PADI Equivalent as well. As a DM/*** you can "apply" for that afaik.
Also, theres two kinds of Level 1 with FFESSM, supervised and unsupervised.

Long story short, the French System is a bit weird. But unlike most other countries they have to stick to it by law.

I think this is correct.

There are no definitive tables as we are talking about a pastime and not a professional qualification. I can absolutely assure you that without a recognised decompression certification you will be regarded as a Level 2 diver under the FFESSM system. PADI MSDT for example is still a 2 star diver. The Level 3 diver is autonomous under FFESSM rules and may conduct dives to 60m without supervision..

This actually makes sense if you look at it historically. The PADI system trains recreational divers to avoid decompression diving but in the CMAS, BSAC (ex-CMAS) and FFESSM systems diving beyond the NDL's was historically integrated into the system. I'm not sure if it still is in all cases of CMAS variants but it's clear that it isn't part of the PADI recreational system.

I know a PADI course director who was treated as a 2 star diver when on vacation in France. IIRC he was required to dive with a French "guide" for his "safety". I'm not sure if this was a rule or if they were just taking the piss with him but in any case I think they wanted to make a point.

I've also met a FFESSM dive master (3 or 4* diver) who has been bent 3 times already "rescuing" clients from a French only liveaboard in Egypt. The last time (that I know of) they did a "check out" dive at 50m on a wreck. (yes, you read that right. a check out dive at 50m). One of the divers' weight belts slipped off during the check out dive and he made an uncontrolled ascent to the surface with an unclear decompression obligation (unclear to me since I wasn't involved). She followed him out of a sense of duty and got bent too. When I met her she was learning how to walk again... for the third time, since this had already happened TWICE before!

So yeah. Integrating deco procedures into the curriculum doesn't necessarily mean that you're a better diver. I don't know any PADI CD's that would do a "check out" dive at 50m, for example.

R..

 

[Freewillow]

I am used to dive with french speaking divers in Egypt and other parts of the world. ALL check out dives that I have seen are on a bottom of 20m. So your story seems to be a - very bad - exeption rather than the rule.

 

[Diver0001]

I am used to dive with french speaking divers in Egypt and other parts of the world. ALL check out dives that I have seen are on a bottom of 20m. So your story seems to be a - very bad - exeption rather than the rule.

I guess so. I would hope so. I really would hope so.....

But she had been bent 3 times making similar mistakes. When I saw her she needed help standing up out of her chair. Based on this example I have serious doubts if the number of stars you have translates into safe diving.

The point being that the number of stars probably means nothing of substance. A PADI CD being treated as a 2 star diver might feel really good to people who want to make a point about PADI but a PADI CD wouldn't do a checkout dive at 50m.... not once, definitely not twice after someone had already gotten bent and absolutely-definitely-positively not three times.....

R..

 

[Freewillow]

I am not trying to justify the behavior of that person. What you describe is plain stupidity. I just want to make sure no generalisation is made out of that unacceptable example.

I just hope that some French divers will tell here what they think about this.

 

[Diver0001]

Fair enough and I agree. We shouldn't be making generalizations.

Like the generalization that a PADI CD needs a "guide" for his "safety"......

This is the point I'm driving at. To be perfectly honest some PADI CD's probably DO need a guide for their safety. But holding a FFESSM certification is not, since we are not making generalizations, a guarantee that the diver knows how to dive..... just like having a PADI CD rating is not a guarantee that they diver does NOT know how to dive.....

See where I'm going with this?

R..

 

[chrisch]

.... A PADI CD being treated as a 2 star diver might feel really good to people who want to make a point about PADI but a PADI CD wouldn't do a checkout dive at 50m.... not once, definitely not twice after someone had already gotten bent and absolutely-definitely-positively not three times.....

R..

PADI CD is a 2 star diver as s/he is not deco certified. Also not certified to dive to 50m for a check out or any other reason. PADI now have a recognised deco route with the DSAT TecRec system.

I really don't understand the whole "check out" dive thing to be honest. If someone is 50m certified they don't need a check out and if they lose a weight at 50m their training and skills are so badly lacking that they should not have been there in the first place.

 

[Freewillow]

We are in agreement Diver0001. FYI, I am not a FFESSM cerified diver. My school was PADI/IANTD.

I have seen 3/4 star FFSEMM divers that were not good, I would say like in any dive school that I know of.

@ Chrisch. My experience with checkout dives is the following. They are systematically done on all Liveboards that I have been on. I believe that they are totally justified. The idea is that most divers have been travelling for hours the day before, most have not dived for months and are diving in a new environment. A good occasion to have a check on the weights, eventual new gear or buddy and to refresh the DSMB depoyment routine. Something that is mandatory to carry on liveboards.

 

[Diver0001]

PADI CD is a 2 star diver as s/he is not deco certified. Also not certified to dive to 50m for a check out or any other reason. PADI now have a recognised deco route with the DSAT TecRec system.

I really don't understand the whole "check out" dive thing to be honest. If someone is 50m certified they don't need a check out and if they lose a weight at 50m their training and skills are so badly lacking that they should not have been there in the first place.

I'm just giving a little push back. I know that a PADI CD is not necessarily deco certified and therefore should "officially" be seen as a 2* diver. I've also said that IMHO some PADI CD's actually do need a guide for their safety.

But to call a spade a spade here we're really dancing around the arrogance issue. PADI divers who dive in France are seen by the FFESSM as second class divers. Regardless of experience..... regardless of certification level .... regardless of knowledge, procedures or understanding.

This... while some FFESSM divers are getting bent over and over again (against the PADI protocol of not making more victims than necessary) trying to save other FFESSM divers who are making stupid ass noob mistakes on stupid ass check out dives.

See where I'm going with this?

R..