Diving France?

[chrisch]

.... if you are PADI divemaster or instructor, you cannot dive autonomous and you must be accompanied by a diver CMAS***, because PADI is not officially recognized. Nobody can dispute to me.

.....

Sadly, as usual, you are wrong. So I will dispute to you

PADI does not teach decompression diving. Therefore the highest equivalent is CMAS 2 star. From Rescue up to Course Director you remain "level 2".

A level 2 diver may dive autonomously but only to 20m. With a guide they may dive to 40m (the limit of PADI training).

For anyone staying in France for any length of time it is easy to gain a level 3 (CMAS 3 star) qualification. You can take the crossover (passerelle) from PADI rescue with deep speciality to level 3 over a weekend for about 150 Euro.

The big problem with France is not the PADI system but other agencies such as IANTD where the diver holds a decompression certification (e.g. Advanced Nitrox) but this is not recognised.

The other issue (which is the one that annoys you I think) is that a PADI OWSI is not recognised as an instructor because they have no decompression training and are therefore level 2. They cannot teach since they have not reached the minimum standard for an instructor in the French system. In addition they require the BEES - a state qualification which entitles them to teach anything at all.

As I have pointed out before on this forum and others, the PADI OWSI is the only instructor qualification that entitles the holder to any reduction in the examinations for the BEES. Whereas, for example, a UK instructor qualified by BSAC is recognised by CMAS as a 2 star instructor (unlike the PADI OWSI) but such a person would have to do the entire BEES with no exemption for their CMAS recognised qualification.

It is, like all things French, illogical and wrapped in red tape. It is, however, designed to ensure a high standard of safety - not a bad objective in my view.

So, once again, if you want to make a point about instructor recognition be my guest. However, please stop trying to scare visiting recreational divers with this nonsense.

Thank you.

Chris

 

[Tomeck]

Sadly, as usual, you are wrong. So I will dispute to you

PADI does not teach decompression diving. Therefore the highest equivalent is CMAS 2 star. From Rescue up to Course Director you remain "level 2".

It is not true. PADI teach

1. Using the RDP, if you exceed a no decompression
limit or an adjusted no decompression
limit by no more than five minutes, slowly
ascend at a rate not faster than 18 metres/60
feet per minute to 5 metres/15 feet and remain
there for eight minutes prior to surfacing.
After reaching the surface, do not dive
for at least six hours.​

2. Using the RDP, if you exceed a no decompression
limit or an adjusted no decompression
limit by more than five minutes, slowly ascend
at a rate not faster than 18 metres/60
feet per minute to 5 metres/15 feet and remain
there for no less than 15 minutes prior
to surfacing, air supply permitting. After
reaching the surface, do not dive for at least
24 hours.​

PADI teach also DSAT for technical diving.​

The Anti-PADI often employ a word very typical "deco" to argue that the PADI divers cannot better dive than the CMAS divers.​

If you say that a course director with 3000 dives has the same level as CMAS** with 50 dives, many think you are arrogant.

In Villeneuve, a course director with 3000 dives is always regarded as CMAS level 1 to dive a thank diving of 20 meters (66 feet) at 30°C (86°F).

The big problem with France is not the PADI system but other agencies such as IANTD where the diver holds a decompression certification (e.g. Advanced Nitrox) but this is not recognised.

TDI is also not always recognized by FFESSM dive shops in France, even TDI is a member of CMAS.

As I have pointed out before on this forum and others, the PADI OWSI is the only instructor qualification that entitles the holder to any reduction in the examinations for the BEES. Whereas, for example, a UK instructor qualified by BSAC is recognised by CMAS as a 2 star instructor (unlike the PADI OWSI) but such a person would have to do the entire BEES with no exemption for their CMAS recognised qualification.

BSAC is banned by CMAS. Monitors TIDF (Israeli CMAS) and EDA (German CMAS) are excluded by FFESSM. FFESSM doesn't like foreign monitors CMAS.

It is, like all things French, illogical and wrapped in red tape. It is, however, designed to ensure a high standard of safety - not a bad objective in my view.

You got many certifications FFESSM in France and you like to defend the FFESSM, it is your problem, but the CMAS is stalling in all Europe, except in France.

 

[Air One]

You got many certifications FFESSM in France and you like to defend the FFESSM, it is your problem,

If I refer to his profile, Chris has PADI, IANTD and FFESSM certifications.
He probably knows what he is talking about.

We perfectly know in France like in Swiss that you don't.

 

[chrisch]

... you like to defend the FFESSM, it is your problem, ....

I'm not defending FFESSM at all. I am trying to give divers visiting France the accurate situation about diving there, to help them enjoy their holidays. It annoyed me, having done my IANTD Trimix, to be required to do FFESSM N3 in order to dive beyond 40m. However, it is not the end of the world, nor is the PADI to FFESSM crossover very difficult.

PADI (as opposed to DSAT) do not teach decompression diving. Putting forward an emergency procedure as formal decompression diving is absurd. With that kind of attitude its little wonder you are not allowed to teach in France. Actually, you are making the argument for the French regulations.

Oh and just to correct you on yet another thing that you are wrong about, BSAC is not "banned" by CMAS. BSAC was a founding member of CMAS but left a number of years ago as it felt there was not enough value in remaining a member. BSAC qualifications are granted CMAS equivalence through SAA. All BSAC divers can for a fee receive a card which shows their BSAC qualification and the equivalent CMAS grade.

BSAC Qualification Cards - BSAC

Chris
Chairman (that's Président if you prefer it in French ), BSAC branch 2411, Le Bourg Divers

 

[encoreplus2]

.... Putting forward an emergency procedure as formal decompression diving is absurd.

one might forget the sheer absurdity of this peculiar point, it's just part of the whole pinguin's idiosyncrasy .

regardless of CC, abroad divers will be welcomed and be given the opportunity to enjoy diving safely, according to their practical abilities.

 

[Oside Jimc]

I visit Aix-en-Provence for business on a regular basis and on my next trip I think I'd like to do some diving, I usually visit Cassis while I'm there, is the diving from there good? If not where would you recommend? I'm am retty flexible with location.

You also need a medical certificate of less than a year old.

Also regarding the medical certificate, is there a specific form the French Government requires or is a standard PADI medical form adequate? I assume if signed by my Doctor in the US it will be accepted?

 

[Tomeck]

I visit Aix-en-Provence for business on a regular basis and on my next trip I think I'd like to do some diving, I usually visit Cassis while I'm there, is the diving from there good? If not where would you recommend? I'm am retty flexible with location.



Also regarding the medical certificate, is there a specific form the French Government requires or is a standard PADI medical form adequate? I assume if signed by my Doctor in the US it will be accepted?

About the medical certificate, it depends of dive center, it is a good idea to ask dive center by e-mail before to come. Don't forget to ask if dive center accept the medical certificate in English. I was in Cavalaire near from Saint-Tropez, I didn't have a problem with the medical certificate in English, because my dive center was open, but it exist others dive centers which don't accept the medical certificate in English.

The standard PADI medical don't exist, even in the PADI dive centers.

 

[encoreplus2]

I visit Aix-en-Provence for business on a regular basis and on my next trip I think I'd like to do some diving, I usually visit Cassis while I'm there, is the diving from there good? If not where would you recommend? I'm am retty flexible with location.



Also regarding the medical certificate, is there a specific form the French Government requires or is a standard PADI medical form adequate? I assume if signed by my Doctor in the US it will be accepted?

Nothing wrong about diving around Cassis, but from Aix en Provence it's only half an hour drive to Carry le Rouet (west side of marseille, instead of east side).

I've been diving with Passion-plongee and will do it again whenever I can. Nice and easy.
Not sure about their english skills, but after all, you will diving not attending a conference , won't you ?

About the medical certificate, regarding the french regulation, it's not mandatory for diving on your own. So it's up to the diving center to set it's own standards regardless of any peculiar form.

As far as I can remember this diving center will just remember you that it's quite advisable to have a medical checkup (not sure hundred per cent : we had our own, so it was not much of an issue).

They are members of ANMP (professionnal instructors association).
If you can read french here is some useful information on their policy regarding medical certificates.
They are mandatory for instructors but not for customers unless competiting.

Feel free to ask for translating help if/when needed.

 

[zenplongee]

Tom, I know you have a childish and stupid axe to grind with FFESSM but your pointless arguments do nothing to help people. Technically you are correct "directly" recognised. PADI certs are recognised by FFESSM outfits through the CMAS agreements with PADI.

This infantile and pathetic attempt to besmirch the French diving system might perhaps have some validity if you were making a point on an instructor's forum or somewhere that anyone cared less about your sad little problem.

However, we are (unless I am very mistaken) giving advice to a US person wishing to dive in France for pleasure as part of a trip. This person will find no issues with his US based certification (whether it be PADI, NAUI, YMCA or GUE) other than that the CMAS equivalence might require a bit more supervision than is the case in the US.

You are very tiresome and irritating in this campaign of yours. Please, for once, try to think that people on this forum are looking for practical advice about doing what they enjoy - diving. If you want to open a debate about the idiosyncrasies of the French system in respect of its recognition of foreign instructors you will find that I am not far from agreeing with you. However, putting this rubbish in front of so many recreational divers is simply misleading and very unhelpful.

It may not break the terms and conditions of membership of the forum, but it breaks the spirit of the forum. Please reconsider, grow up and desist. Thank you.

Chris

Hi Chris, Tom, et al.
Found your discussion of PADI cert in France really interesting. From a practical point, I have had great dives and no trouble at all diving iin the areas around Toulon. The dives have been great and the people on each boat wonderful. I did encounter, without exception that the shops all considered adv Open water to be the basic vertification (not OW, as in the US). Not a problem, but I do advise friends considering diving there to make sure they carry at least an AOW card and a TDI card for the deeper wrecks that also seem to fall into basic CMAS dives.
I have nothing but great things to say about the dive shops I went with, and diving in s France in general (inmy limited experience). zp /california

 

[encoreplus2]

I have nothing but great things to say about the dive shops I went with, and diving in s France in general (inmy limited experience). zp /california

Great to have your testimony !
let's go to the facts and forget scuttlebutt
So what about insurance and medicals ?
have you been asked to fill in any kind of a medical self assesment form or to go through a medical certificate ?