Diving, Fitness, Obesity and Personal Rights

[dmaziuk]

If an overweight person is that much of a ticking time bomb, why make them die of a heart attack shoveling snow or hiking somewhere instead of scuba diving?

Yeah but what started this tangent was: you keel over shovelling snow in your driveway, it's too bad. You have a heart attack on a dive with a divemaster, a captain, a shop that filled your tank -- they're all in for an unpleasant week or three.

The question is does your personal right to have a body that inconveniences others trump my personal right to not be inconvenienced? And if so, why?

 

[jhnmdahl]

Yeah but what started this tangent was: you keel over shovelling snow in your driveway, it's too bad. You have a heart attack on a dive with a divemaster, a captain, a shop that filled your tank -- they're all in for an unpleasant week or three.

The question is does your personal right to have a body that inconveniences others trump my personal right to not be inconvenienced? And if so, why?

My last sentence - hold them responsible for their choices - to me means no. You put yourself in that position after being informed, and it's on you, not the dive master or anyone else. I do realize it won't work that way anymore, which is a big part of the problem.

 

[DevonDiver]

With regards dive operators, recoveries onto boats etc; liability could be covered by a disclaimer that the diver signs? Something to the effect that they understand and accept that being overweight can make recovery/aid problematic and/or impossible.

With regards personal choice, I see no problem with it. Your life, your choices.

With regards your choices, they shouldn't effect someone else. If I herniated a disk pulling someone overweight from the water, I should be able to sue them. Or I should be absolved all responsibility for pulling them from the water.

In Europe, at least, there are occupational health and safety regulations that cover issues like lifting heavy objects (manual handling). Humans can be heavy objects.

Regulations state that employers must assess the risks to their employees health and safety from manual handling tasks and take measures to reduce the risk of injury so far as reasonably practicable.

That might mean fitting pulleys and slings to dive boats to pull overweight divers out of the water. The costs of which should be covered by the customers.

If you cannot eliminate or mechanise the manual handling tasks, you must carry out a risk assessment where the task could present a risk of injury. You need to look at ways to reduce the risks to as low a level as reasonably practicable.

That risk assessment, in the diving rescue/recovery context, could lead to rescues not being effected on overweight individuals. It should provide reasonable protection against litigation for not effecting a rescue.

 

[chillyinCanada]

Not all large heavy people are overweight. You could herniate your disk pulling out a strapping young man. Will you sue him for being too tall and well muscled?

 

[chillyinCanada]

Not all large heavy people are overweight. You could herniate your disk pulling out a strapping young man. Will you sue him for being too tall and well muscled?

 

[chillyinCanada]

Not all large heavy people are overweight. You could herniate your disk pulling out a strapping young man. Will you sue him for being too tall and well muscled?

 

[Bob DBF]

Yes the purpose of a c card is to prove you have been trained to a particular level. However, do you really think that in court thats going to hold up on its on? "Well your honor, I checked his/her c card and they said they were experienced. I had no idea the person………….enter whatever here.

That's exactly it! The insurance company would rather defend that a third party certified, after training, a diver fit, competent, know their limits, and able to make their own decisions, rather than the insured boat captain, on a glance, certify the diver fit and competent...

If you say that a diver is able to make a dive safely, then you have responsibly should they never come back.

Now if you want to talk about giving out a c-card without the diver being fit, competent, know their limits, and able to make their own decisions, that may not be more productive than this one, but it is closer to the crux of the problem.



Bob

 

[OrangeCountyScuba]

@BobDBF Honestly, I am not trying to be rude but I am not sure what you mean. I read and re read your comments but I am having a hard time understanding the position you are trying to take. Would you mind rewording it a bit or paraphrase so I can understand?

 

[Volksfolks]

@OrangeCountyScuba I appreciate your reply and I get the sentiment, I really do, but on that note I weigh less than a couple friends of mine who are incredibly fit, why would my weight be more of an issue than theirs. If you go back to my original post you will see that I am very active with no medical issues, I eat well (borderline vegetarian ), just don't lose weight. Is what it is, but I do know that I am a far far safer diver than many I have seen and dove with.

 

[Bob DBF]

@BobDBF Honestly, I am not trying to be rude but I am not sure what you mean. I read and re read your comments but I am having a hard time understanding the position you are trying to take. Would you mind rewording it a bit or paraphrase so I can understand?

Tried twice and it's not working.


Bob