Diving beyond cert?

[MacDuyver]

I got OW certified (PADI) in May and have only been on a few dives since. I'd like to go diving again soon, but where I've been invited is generally 60-100' where all the interesting stuff is. I seem pretty comfortable, and am not terribly worried about the depth. I am signed up for AOW next month already. I'm wondering if there's any critical reason I shouldn't do these dives? Dive buddy is really experienced and reassuring, and I'm not above aborting at the first sign of problems or me being uncomfortable. Thoughts please?

I did 110ft a week after getting OW certified. I’m not gonna universally recommend it in hind sight.

In my case I’d been diving with the DM/instructor before, he felt comfortable taking me down with the guidance of “stay within arms reach of me and do exactly what I say/do.” So I did.

I don’t really recommend it without qualifiers though.

 

[inquis]

In an OW class -- with at most 3 dives under your belt -- you may have dived to 60 ft on a training dive. It's baffling how a limit *during a class* is conflated with how deep someone can go *after a class*.

My OW instruction was very clear: stay within the guidelines of the Recreational Dive Planner after the class (130 ft normal limit, 140 ft emergency limit). You will continue to learn as you dive, so grow your experience gradually beyond that of the class up to the limit of recreational diving. (That max depth hasn't changed with the advent of computers.)

 

[Boarderguy]

Yes, with proper training and certification the max depth is 130'. Which your response confirms, as per the PADI FAQ that you provided a link to and I copied below. However the post I was responding to said the Op is certified to 130' and that is not correct.



"With the necessary training and experience, the limit for recreational scuba diving is 40 metres/130 feet. Beginning scuba divers stay shallower than about 18 metres/60 feet. Although these are the limits, some of the most popular diving is shallower than 12 metres/40 feet, where the water’s warmer and the colors are brighter."

The PADI website clearly states that the limit for OW divers- which is the certification level of the Op, is 60 feet. Bold and italics are added by me.



That's because there's no scuba police down there. However most commercial charters and even some life insurance companies (that might refuse to pay following a dive accident where the diver exceeded his or her certification limits) will follow certification limits even if they're difficult to enforce.

You shouldn't drive 100 mph in a 60 mph zone on a deserted country road even though there's no cops there to ticket you.



Please stop "muddying the waters" and giving potentially dangerous and false facts, by suggesting that all scuba divers are certified to 130' at the completion of their 4th successful open water checkout dive. Just because they "can" dive to 130' doesn't mean they 'should' dive beyond their level of training and certification, it violates PADI standards (and that of other scuba certifying agencies and will not be permitted by most commercial charters.

SSI makes a more definitive statement, omitting the word "should" that has @tursiops confused.

The SSI Open Water Diver is our most popular certification level. This globally-recognized certification will allow you to dive with another certified diver, worldwide, to depths of up to 18m / 60 feet



No it's much like getting a driver's license for a car and hopping into a tractor trailer and taking it for a spin down the highway.

You're laughably wrong.

 

[LI-er]

You're laughably wrong.

Yes of course, I'm wrong, PADI is wrong, everyone is wrong except @Boarderguy and a few of his misinformed buddies on this thread who provide nothing but their own opinions when they errantly state that an OW diver is "certified to 130 feet".

Here is yet another reference to support my position, from PADI.

There is nothing to debate here.

 

[Boarderguy]

Yes of course, I'm wrong, PADI is wrong, everyone is wrong except @Boarderguy and a few of his misinformed buddies on this thread who provide nothing but their own opinions when they errantly state that an OW diver is "certified to 130 feet".

Here is yet another reference to support my position, from PADI.

There is nothing to debate here.

Again your lack of understanding what words mean is evident.

"Trained to" does not mean shall not exceed. When an entity does not use an absolute they so not expect it to be a limit. Training is done by exceeding previous experiences and limits. If PADI had used SHALL NOT, then you might have had air in your argument. Since they did not, your opinion is moot. The only limits are based on local law and your insurance. My DAN insurance does not have a depth limit. My local laws (WA) do not have depth or cert limits. Your boogeyman of the deep is the only limit for you.

And you're in the minority here thinking that training agencies can legally limit what you can do under water.

 

[LI-er]

If PADI had used SHALL NOT, then you might have had air in your argument. Since they did not, your opinion is moot.

Are you seriously going to say that because PADI wrote "the limit is" and divers "should not" exceed it rather than "SHALL NOT" that you have a valid argument?

Please. Your opinion is worthless. Go have a cookie or something.

If all of the provided references haven't been enough, here's yet another, from Divers Alert Network, unquestionably a highly regarded and respected organization that services scuba divers all over the planet.

"Preferred Plan or Plus:
...required to demonstrate that he/she held an APPROPRIATE certification for the dive and was using appropriate breathing gas mixes and equipment...."

What do you think "APPROPRIATE certification for the dive" means?

 

[MidOH]

The only reason I'm cert'd at all, is its required on boat ops.

Shore diving or quarry diving, I do what I want. No cert needed.

Padi and Sdi are a nessasary evil to achieve that. I dont care about them, or their rules.

 

[Boarderguy]

Are you seriously going to say that because PADI wrote "the limit is" and divers "should not" exceed it rather than "SHALL NOT" that you have a valid argument?

Yeah, that's exactly right. PADI, NAUI, and all other newer age training agencies have added more and more "limits" to the training progression to ensure they maintain relevance. That is why original certifications were for down to 130'. Slowly, with help from boogeyman fearing divers like you, they've added more and more certifications to make you feel safe because you've shelled out $400+ to get a card from an instructor that very likely self certified to sell more cards.

Deep, night, boat, dsmb, drift, Fjord, etc are all $ grabs to make people feel better.

 

[LI-er]

Slowly, with help from boogeyman fearing divers like you

Yes I'm afraid of the boogeyman because unlike yourself, I respect published industry and dive training organization standards, charter boat rules and restrictions, and their potential liability, possible dive insurance claim issues, and have a clear understand of the potential ramifications of disregarding them. Well with one caveat. I am not "Deep Certified" but with 700+ dives all over the world in varied conditions including near zero visibility around wrecks, with AOW/Nitrox/Solo certifications I do periodically dive to or near the 130' recreational limits.

Did you enjoy your cookie?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Y.ou shouldn't drive 100 mph in a 60 mph zone on a deserted country road even though there's no cops there to ticket you.

What's the point of engine/suspension mods and Z-rated tires, then?

GTFOH

I'm the opposite of the SCUBA Police, I don't know what that's called, but hopefully someone will come up with a cool name.

Scuba anarchist just doesn't have that ring. Sorry