Diving beyond cert?

[MidOH]

The only reason I'm cert'd at all, is its required on boat ops.

Shore diving or quarry diving, I do what I want. No cert needed.

Padi and Sdi are a nessasary evil to achieve that. I dont care about them, or their rules.

 

[MidOH]

I've used training as a tool to get used to certain locals. And to build a relationship with the shops.

Didn't really get anything else out of it. It ain't exactly rocket science.

 

[NothingClever]

I got OW certified (PADI) in May and have only been on a few dives since. I'd like to go diving again soon, but where I've been invited is generally 60-100' where all the interesting stuff is. I seem pretty comfortable, and am not terribly worried about the depth. I am signed up for AOW next month already. I'm wondering if there's any critical reason I shouldn't do these dives? Dive buddy is really experienced and reassuring, and I'm not above aborting at the first sign of problems or me being uncomfortable. Thoughts please?

First, I applaud your intentions to get more training.

My thought is that you’re looking for a personalized answer (and perhaps hoping for general endorsement) that can’t really be provided in a forum exchange.

I think the chances of having your buoyancy control sufficiently dialed in to be diving at that depth after only 10 dives are slim. Perhaps I’m mistaken and you’ve already developed elevator-like control but most people are still working on this fundamental skill at the current stage.

You have a big kid decision in front of you about what your life insurance and family can handle if you were to botch this dive and get injured or die.

It’s OK to take calculated risks but we sometimes don’t know how to calculate risks until we gain more experience.

It takes a lot of maturity from us to guard against enthusiasm maneuvering past our level of experience.

 

[inquis]

unlike yourself, I (mostly) respect published industry and dive training organization standards

Are you aware the OW Diver standards for the WRSTC (of which PADI/SSI/etc. are member organizations) speak of being qualified to "engage in recreational open water diving"? Specifically absent is the phrase "open water diving to 60 ft/18 m".

Again, an OWD is *trained to* 60 ft (see the bold in your screenshot above), but should dive within the union of their training AND experience, as has been repeatedly quoted/stated. If their experience gives them the knowledge/skills to deal with issues at 65 ft, go for it. If they've built the capability to go to/from 130 ft, also great.

 

[lamont]

The major difference between a 60' no deco open water dive, and a 100' no deco open water dive, is 40'. All else being equal, vis, temp, current, etc, the additional/elevated/aggravated risk factors are the potential for narcosis, the accelerated gas consumption, and the abbreviated NDL. As long as the OP, is aware of these risks, is mentally and physically fit, has a reasonable dive plan, an experienced buddy and clear communication protocols, he should be fine. Is it ideal to go to 100' on your tenth dive? Probably not. Is it prohibitively dangerous? No.

Except a lot of inexperienced divers think they understand narcosis and they don't. They don't realize how narc'd they are at 100 feet, think they're fine, and have no appreciation of CO2 narc under any kind of stress. An experienced diver knows how to stay away from stressful situations at depth to begin with, knows how to recognize their own signs of stress, knows how to breathe to expel CO2 properly and knows to ascend if they're showing signs of narcosis. A very inexperienced diver can just let the anxiety and paranoia build up until they're hyperventilating into a full-blown CO2 hit and then wind up with PTSD and stop diving (which happens more often than most people expect, but you have to go talk to the people who drop out of diving, not the divers who stick around).

 

[inquis]

I dove with only an OW cert for 20+ years because it didn't matter. I could show my log or computer and the boat or shop was content with that.

Same. Date of last dive is the most info I recall needing to provide.

Now they often require AOW due to insurance (not agency). So now I have AOW

Bolded for emphasis, and why I got AOW after all this time. Their boat, their rules.

 

[NothingClever]

@inquis & @Boarderguy

I sincerely value the passion and I recognize there’s some value in @Wheeler925 getting exposure to the divergences in “the dive industry” but can we tamp down the argument that’s coming at the expense of a guy just trying to figure out whether to go on a dive or not?

 

[inquis]

at the expense of a guy just trying to figure out whether to go on a dive or not?

My view is that question was pretty well answered by Post #17, but sure, I'll bow out.

 

[Kendall Raine]

The most important thing is knowing you have sufficient gas for you and your buddy to ascend to the surface in the case that one of you suffers catastrophic gas loss and you have to share gas to the surface.

I wrote a dive planning doc for my area:
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but the concepts are universal. If you know the site, have a map, go through the process and see how comfortable you are once going through this excessive exercise. The point of the document isn't memorization, but to develop a plan for new places and being comofortable throughout the dive as you monitor your gas consumption and compare to expected cylinder pressures at different points of the dive and always abiding by min gas.

This is really good stuff. An excellent distillation of gas/dive planning philosophy/practice sadly diluted (e.g be back with 300-500 psi) in a lot of recreational diving courses/planning/practice. Do you take your open water students through it or just make it available? Present/test planning scenarios in your courses? If so you are teaching the AP version of recreational scuba courses.

 

[boulderjohn]

How do you distill all that into some very simple, easy-to remember-under-stress rules? The beauty of "be back on the boat with 500 psi" is how simple it is; but it does not tell you how to do that. "Leave the bottom at 700 psi" tells you how to do that, but does not allow for a buddy.

I know some people who argue that it does.

I have heard people argue that given the rarity of OOA ascents (I have only been in the vicinity of one once in over a quarter century of diving), it is silly to end each dive with the abundance of sir needed to bring up an OOA diver with an ascent that includes a safety stop and a reserve on top of that. Bringing an OOA buddy to the surface is a good reason for the "be back with 500 PSI" mantra. Divers within NDLs should be able so surface safely without a safety stop. If a diver successfully reaches the surface with an OOA diver, he or she will be forgiven for getting on the boat with less than 500 PSI.

Note that I am not making this argument--I am just saying I have heard it made.