Diving Accident, Self-Responsibility and Balance

[MMM]

I almost NEVER have needed mine but I do have a folding snorkel I keep in a pocket as a "just in case" tool.

Question: I am a strong snorkeler, but not a strong swimmer. I had gotten into the habit of leaving my dry snorkel on the boat. One of my PADI instucters said snorkels are just a pain, another said they are important. Any thoughts?

 

[MrChen]

Thea, you don't have to justify anything, let them talk. You've said your part and defending your claims only adds fuel to the fire.

 

[gianaameri]

Hmmm...so you don't agree with my thesis that training can make the difference between a paralyzing, reptilian response and a calm, systematic assessment of the situation leading to appropriate action? Or does the fact that you are using the term "amygdala" again imply that I am missing something?



Which things are an acceptable norm? I don't understand this.





This, I understand!

Training is a must as part of engaging in any adventure sport or you will be taking unnecessary risks and repeat the same mistakes made by others before which have been addressed by revisions to training.

Nonetheless no amount of training can stop the reptilian brain to trigger the fight or flight response if and when it wants to with the consequence that your behavior can no longer be dominated by the cognitive mind and that which you externally leraned during training, but will be dominated by the reptilian brain and its more limited, but effective, way to deal with extreme crisis.

It is part of us and works for us and we have to find a way to use it, or to the very least acknowledge it is and accept this.

It is not an enemy or a cancer. It has a time, and a place, and a purpose.

As to the rest, if the general dive population dives the way it does, this is a function of the way the industry has evolved and has organised itself.

I think in Theas dive that dive that day the root cause of the problem was respiratory distress.

However, a lot of other interesting points/issues have been identified which are a consequence of her prior training as a recreational diver.

After her medical, rather than learn diving from an internet forum if she wants to raise her knowledge and skill level I'd suggest a Sidemount course with Protec.

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[Greenjuice]

I'd suggest a Sidemount course with Protec.

An advanced cave diving method.
Hmm. Yes, she might have some time after astronaut training with NASA.


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[TONY CHANEY]

Training is a must as part of engaging in any adventure sport or you will be taking unnecessary risks and repeat the same mistakes made by others before which have been addressed by revisions to training.

Nonetheless no amount of training can stop the reptilian brain to trigger the fight or flight response if and when it wants to with the consequence that your behavior can no longer be dominated by the cognitive mind and that which you externally leraned during training, but will be dominated by the reptilian brain and its more limited, but effective, way to deal with extreme crisis.

It is part of us and works for us and we have to find a way to use it, or to the very least acknowledge it is and accept this.

It is not an enemy or a cancer. It has a time, and a place, and a purpose.

As to the rest, if the general dive population dives the way it does, this is a function of the way the industry has evolved and has organised itself.

I think in Theas dive that dive that day the root cause of the problem was respiratory distress.

However, a lot of other interesting points/issues have been identified which are a consequence of her prior training as a recreational diver.

After her medical, rather than learn diving from an internet forum if she wants to raise her knowledge and skill level I'd suggest a Sidemount course with Protec.

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That is exactly what I am talking about! First you start out saying that training is a must then add that no additional training will prevent the FOF responce. You then state that we have made points that, "which are a consequence of her prior training as a recreational diver. And you finish up a suggestion, "a Sidemount course with Protec."

So let's take a diver with several factors going againt her; smoking, drinking, over weight, rental gear, in currents, no buddy, etc. who is diving a basic OW rec. kit. The dive is a day dive, great vis, good water temps and shallow depths. So in order to provide her information to make her a better diver, you suggest a side mount class.

So what I suggest is something that would have helped her without the additional cost of a somewhat tech class with additional gear. I suggest, cutting back or even better quitting smoking, slow up on the drinking the night before the dive, know your limits pertaining to the dive at hand, have a medical checkup, buddy up, lose some weight and dive. What I am suggesting will actually save her money and make her a better diver. Additional gear and additional task loading really creates for a bad class if you do not have the basic OW stuff down.

FWIW: I shutter to think of the vast amount of money I wasted on smoking prior to quitting. That money could have gone toward owning my own gear sooner.

 

[chillyinCanada]

Gianaameri, you are projecting. You are a one note song. Some divers do have an emergency and/or get a fright but not everyone of them is having the same experience that you did. You are projecting, dude, and it's given you blinders.

 

[Mike]

Nonetheless no amount of training can stop the reptilian brain to trigger the fight or flight response if and when it wants to with the consequence that your behavior can no longer be dominated by the cognitive mind and that which you externally leraned during training, but will be dominated by the reptilian brain and its more limited, but effective, way to deal with extreme crisis.

The US military and about 50 million soldiers trained by it in the last 75 years, and all law enforcement agencies in the United States or any martial arts discipline from the last 3000 years would whole heartily disagree with you 100%.

Training is exactly what allows human beings to master control of situations and not lapse into the panic response of the 'reptilian brain' as you put it in a crisis situation.

 

[doctormike]

The US military and about 50 million soldiers trained by it in the last 75 years

Hey! I had a great uncle who served in World War I...! He got good training too, I have his journal..



---------- Post added March 2nd, 2014 at 06:15 PM ----------

Thea, you don't have to justify anything, let them talk. You've said your part and defending your claims only adds fuel to the fire.

It's not a "fire", it's a bunch of experienced divers giving up their own time to discuss someone's diving problem and giving her advice on how to be a safer diver. No one here has any reason to wish Thea harm, or to profit from her journey. It's easy to use terms like "attacked" and "defending" to imply an adversarial relationship when none exists. Even Thea's harshest critics are here to help, I'm assuming.

 

[Thea Strassburg]

Thea, you don't have to justify anything, let them talk. You've said your part and defending your claims only adds fuel to the fire.

Thank you MrChen! I left feeling defensive behind about 319 posts ago. Being a trial attorney, I am pretty confident and have a high tolerance for being criticized (cause I am always right. Why waste energy defending my rightness?) This incident has brought me to my knees however. I worked most of last week, felt tentative and hesitant in making decisions usually second nature to me. I have spent this entire weekend in bed. I have delayed seeing my primary physician for as long as possible (I am scared to hear what she has to say).

Today, I was thinking about an hour long dive earlier in the week, wondering why the top of my tank was preventing me from lifting my head. Every time I lifted my head to look forward, the dang tank and reg hit me in the center of the back of my head and started to push my mask strap up and off.

I fixed it on the second dive that day but Good God...I can't even feel shame here anymore. And take no offense whatsoever at any information, in whatever form, is offered.

It isn't just the C-Card that makes a safe diver. On this SAME DIVE, 2 fit, handsome, 30 somethings doing their Discovery OW dive for certification, THEY PUT THEIR WET SUITS ON BACKWARDS! Were they copying me? I was just wearing a skin and the zipper was in the front. Was it just a silly but inconsequential mistake that did not reflect in any way on their training? Or was it something bigger and more foreboding?
I do not know. But I DO know that, at this moment, basic PADI training is NOT, in my view, adequate enough to allow a diver to dive essentially solo.
Not blaming! Just an observation.
I had NEVER heard before this thread that I alone am responsible for a safe dive. And believe me, this makes a MASSIVE difference in my thoughts about being certified.
Rambling now, forgive me. I love scuba, I love living. New divers may be over confident because they got the Cert card (with their pic on it no less!)

 

[gianaameri]

The US military and about 50 million soldiers trained by it in the last 75 years, and all law enforcement agencies in the United States or any martial arts discipline from the last 3000 years would whole heartily disagree with you 100%.

Training is exactly what allows human beings to master control of situations and not lapse into the panic response of the 'reptilian brain' as you put it in a crisis situation.

Dim Mak Tai-Chi takes a different view.

Tom Mount is a good source of information on this and good training for SCUBA as well.

He wrote a nice book on diving and nutrition - highly recommended.

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