Diving Accident, Self-Responsibility and Balance

[Thea Strassburg]

I think in Theas dive that dive that day the root cause of the problem was respiratory distress.

However, a lot of other interesting points/issues have been identified which are a consequence of her prior training as a recreational diver.

After her medical, rather than learn diving from an internet forum if she wants to raise her knowledge and skill level I'd suggest a Sidemount course with Protec.

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I am pretty sure my doctor is going to tell me I have COPD, lung cancer or a cardiac issue tomorrow. While some feel I just freaked and went to the surface and freaked some more, that is not the case. And you G, helped me SO much.
This dive seemed so... BIG, so HUGE. Yet, I have surfaced and hung out with my BCD inflated in rough seas {like Kauaii in the winter on the northern shore, in Tunnels beach the day before the tsunami hit), and chilled.
I have been in similar circumstances and never, ever, experienced ARDS.

I worked at a Level 1 Trauma Center for years as a heart transplant, then later trauma social worker. What I learned, was NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE, in that hospital cares about your health more than you do.

And I told each patient that in an effort to improve patient self-education and advocacy. Not the doctors, not the nurses, no one on the medical team cared more than the patient about his health. So, learn about your diagnosis, make them LISTEN when your body is telling you one thing and the doctors are telling you something different.

What is defined as "panic"? I came up because I my strength prevented me from swimming against the current over that reef. The dive shop owner said he had considered many times, putting a rope over the ascending reef.

In the mean time, I ignored my internal signs of distress, because I attributed them to the dive itself. I was unable to wet my own mouth because I was dehydrated, I was fighting my weight belt, fighting to get pics, all the while my lungs were drying and constricting.

By the time I surfaced, I could no longer breath. My ONLY thoughts were "don't panic, keep reg in, breath". And I did. I did not fight, I remember desperately searching for the BCD hose, waves, otherwise small, washing over my face, that felt HUGE. I remember that 40 minutes after I surfaced, STILL having the same symptoms as I entered the clinic.

I did not listen to my own body, yet the signs were there. I did not panic, I was losing my physical ability to move. And think. Not because I freaked, but because I was hypoxic due to an undetected medical condition. G is, to me, absolutely correct. I think my doctor will confirm that, in some form or fashion, tomorrow.

G, thank you. I would not be baring my soul here if I had just panicked. I did everything I could think of to live. Had I known what I know now though, I would have ended that dive much earlier, would have paid more attention to my body, would have listened to my internal voice that something was not going right. I could have killed myself and worse yet, traumatized people who were otherwise doing their jobs.

Thank you G. From the bottom of my heart. And again, I implore any DM to NEVER let someone in distress just "tire themselves out". The thought of it terrifies me. Even high school athletes occasionally die during sports from an otherwise undetected medical issue. Having adequate O2 (short cut phrase) on the dang boat and knowing how to use it is just... essential. DM's are not doctors. Smacking a mask on someone just in case just cannot hurt.

 

[gianaameri]

Thea, hopefully it was just a one off event brought about by your smoking and overxerting yourself on the dive possibly in combination with a low performing reg. (bit of salt water inside and internal corrosion).

Need not to always think about the very worst.

Take care.

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[doctormike]

I have been in similar circumstances and never, ever, experienced ARDS.

Yes, and you still haven't as far as I can tell.

Don't know if anyone will call me out for attacking (I think that I have made it clear that I am trying to help Thea, here), but terminology issues like this really just muddy the water, and make it hard to comment at all.

ARDS (Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome, formerly called "shock lung") is a life threatening illness that is generally seen in patients with a severe underlying illness (trauma, pneumonia, sepsis, etc..), typically in an ICU setting. It involves a leakage of fluid from the lung capillaries around the parts of the lung which are responsible for gas exchange (the alveoli). Treatment typically involves intubation and long term mechanical ventilation while the lungs recover. People who survive this can take several months to return to their previous level of lung function.

Unless there is a lot of the story that we don't know, anything that gets better in an island clinic with supplemental O2 from a non-rebreather mask isn't likely to be ARDS.

Thea, you may have had bronchospasm, you may have had IPE, but I doubt that you had ARDS.

 

[NWA395]

More training, my own equipment and more practice. ....I feel fragile, anxious and depressed.

Thea,
I am absolutely an advocate of buying diving your own gear. If I have to pay the extra $$ for an overweight or extra bag so be it. It just a part of the vacation and cost (an usually a minimal cost compared to the total trip)

The majority of vacation divers take one or two trips a year and dive a half dozen time with no dives at home. They may or may not rent or use dive op rental gear.

Owning and using your own gear allows you to become intimately familiar with it. My SMB and reel are always clipped in the same place. Octo always attached in the same place on my chest, I know how much weight goes in each back trim pocket, each main packet, etc., left pocket contains my backup light, right pocket contains... etc.. etc.. you get the picture.

Using different rental gear from a different ops for every trip means you may or may not be familiar with the gear. If that is the case, why would you expect that you would be proficient or comfortable with it?

More importantly for me, with my own gear I immediately realize if a particular piece of my gear is not functioning correctly.

Unfortunately the recreational vacation dive op and recreational vacation diver each feed the problem. The diver wrongly assumes the dive op/dm will outfit them perfectly AND be responsible for them and the diver assumes the role of the lemming and follows the DM, wrongfully thinking "all I have to do is breath"

I have seen divers who have requested and needed DM assistance in assembling their gear on the boat. My initial thought is always "what the $&#@*"... If a diver is not familiar enough to put the gear together on the boat, what makes them think they are suddenly qualified to deal with anything that happens at 60' or 100' below the surface.

The vacation dive ops often depend on volume and have the difficult job of trying to determine who should be on the boat and who shouldn't. And most times they play the odds and take the $$$.

I sincerely hope your health checks out and you are able to resume diving. I would encourage you to invest in your own gear (used gear or new) and learn the gear as well as taking in some pool time or a refresher course if you don't dive at home.

Good luck and I hope you are able to get back into the water.

 

[Peter69_56]

I always take my own gear. ALWAYS. If I don't have my own gear I don't dive.

 

[Mike]

Question: I am a strong snorkeler, but not a strong swimmer. I had gotten into the habit of leaving my dry snorkel on the boat. One of my PADI instucters said snorkels are just a pain, another said they are important. Any thoughts?

A snorkel is low on the list of emergency equipment to have on every dive, but being low on the list makes it no less important if you're looking to have as much 'just in case' equipment you can have with you. I'd rate a cutting tool ahead of a snorkel.

But if you want one just in case for that rare circumstance where it would pay off to have one, there are many roll up snorkels made from soft rubber like material and the snorkel rolls up on itself into a cocoon that is about the size of a yo-yo and you can keep it in a pocket.

 

[Redshift]

Question: I am a strong snorkeler, but not a strong swimmer. I had gotten into the habit of leaving my dry snorkel on the boat. One of my PADI instucters said snorkels are just a pain, another said they are important. Any thoughts?

They are good... for snorkeling...

 

[bowlofpetunias]

My wish for you is that you'll have a good health check up. And my belief is that when you do, you'll be looking for your own gear. I'm top heavy too and very happy with my Ladyhawk, though it did scare the crap out of me the first few dives, on the surface that is. my first backinflate and I felt tipped over face first. Only took a couple of dives to catch the proper handling of it. Now I'm so darn comfortable, that is rare to remember those first dives with it, but when I do it's always with surprise that I'd had anything other than the complete comfort.

You appear to have the love for diving coupled with the desire to be knowledgeable and prepared. When you get back at it, nothing but good times ahead.

I love my Ladyhawk too. I was lucky tho my partner had a back inflate from the get go. I borrowed his a few times so I knew from the get go the trick of leaning back on the wings. My point is that with Thea not familiar with the gear and the tendency of the back inflate to push your face into the water if you are not leaning back a bit... those small waves would seem a whole lot bigger for good reason!

I am pretty sure my doctor is going to tell me I have COPD, lung cancer or a cardiac issue tomorrow.

those fears tend to grow on you. I am sure all of us are hoping that it will turn out to be something less sinister. Betrter to get it done and not keep letting the fear build!

I worked at a Level 1 Trauma Center for years as a heart transplant, then later trauma social worker. What I learned, was NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE, in that hospital cares about your health more than you do.

And I told each patient that in an effort to improve patient self-education and advocacy. Not the doctors, not the nurses, no one on the medical team cared more than the patient about his health. So, learn about your diagnosis, make them LISTEN when your body is telling you one thing and the doctors are telling you something different.

I think that is exactly the same thing we are saying to you about diving. Nobody has more interest in keeping you safe than you do.

G, thank you. I would not be baring my soul here if I had just panicked. I did everything I could think of to live. Had I known what I know now though, I would have ended that dive much earlier, would have paid more attention to my body, would have listened to my internal voice that something was not going right. I could have killed myself and worse yet, traumatized people who were otherwise doing their jobs.

Thank you G. From the bottom of my heart. And again, I implore any DM to NEVER let someone in distress just "tire themselves out". The thought of it terrifies me. Even high school athletes occasionally die during sports from an otherwise undetected medical issue. Having adequate O2 (short cut phrase) on the dang boat and knowing how to use it is just... essential. DM's are not doctors. Smacking a mask on someone just in case just cannot hurt.

I am glad you have found something of value in the discussion here. I think a lot of people can gain from reading this thread and seriously considering the results of panic, how to move your threshold that will generate panic by training. I also like that people are looking at all sides and challenging our thought processes.

I agree that there are times that people assume the wrong thing. Perhaps we will know more on the causes after you see the doctor. It will be helpful to us and to other who read this thread later if you are kind and brave enough to come back and tell us what was found. I haven't personally felt there was enough information yet to some to a qualified conclusion.

.Thea, you may have had bronchospasm, you may have had IPE, but I doubt that you had ARDS.

Thanks so much for your medical knowledge and information. It will indeed be interesting to hear the results of Thea's medical exam if she is willing to share them.

Thea,
I am absolutely an advocate of buying diving your own gear. If I have to pay the extra $$ for an overweight or extra bag so be it. It just a part of the vacation and cost (an usually a minimal cost compared to the total trip)

The majority of vacation divers take one or two trips a year and dive a half dozen time with no dives at home. They may or may not rent or use dive op rental gear.

Owning and using your own gear allows you to become intimately familiar with it. My SMB and reel are always clipped in the same place. Octo always attached in the same place on my chest, I know how much weight goes in each back trim pocket, each main packet, etc., left pocket contains my backup light, right pocket contains... etc.. etc.. you get the picture.

Using different rental gear from a different ops for every trip means you may or may not be familiar with the gear. If that is the case, why would you expect that you would be proficient or comfortable with it?

More importantly for me, with my own gear I immediately realize if a particular piece of my gear is not functioning correctly.

Unfortunately the recreational vacation dive op and recreational vacation diver each feed the problem. The diver wrongly assumes the dive op/dm will outfit them perfectly AND be responsible for them and the diver assumes the role of the lemming and follows the DM, wrongfully thinking "all I have to do is breath"

I have seen divers who have requested and needed DM assistance in assembling their gear on the boat. My initial thought is always "what the $&#@*"... If a diver is not familiar enough to put the gear together on the boat, what makes them think they are suddenly qualified to deal with anything that happens at 60' or 100' below the surface.

The vacation dive ops often depend on volume and have the difficult job of trying to determine who should be on the boat and who shouldn't. And most times they play the odds and take the $$$.

I sincerely hope your health checks out and you are able to resume diving. I would encourage you to invest in your own gear (used gear or new) and learn the gear as well as taking in some pool time or a refresher course if you don't dive at home.

Good luck and I hope you are able to get back into the water.

Good advice... and not just because it agrees with my opinion Nothing like knowing your gear so You don't have to search for the inflater or feel like the straps are too tight etc

 

[MrChen]

It's not a "fire", it's a bunch of experienced divers giving up their own time to discuss someone's diving problem and giving her advice on how to be a safer diver. No one here has any reason to wish Thea harm, or to profit from her journey. It's easy to use terms like "attacked" and "defending" to imply an adversarial relationship when none exists. Even Thea's harshest critics are here to help, I'm assuming.

You've been very fair in your posts, but others seem to be a bit more aggressive. I was trying to give her advice that she doesn't have to respond to each post in a way that seems like she's defending herself. A lot of her posts are her responding and defending her position, which in turn just gets those same individuals to continue on. I may not have worded it properly, but what I really meant was, let them debate and don't feel like it's a personal attack that always requires a response.

 

[doctormike]

You've been very fair in your posts, but others seem to be a bit more aggressive. I was trying to give her advice that she doesn't have to respond to each post in a way that seems like she's defending herself. A lot of her posts are her responding and defending her position, which in turn just gets those same individuals to continue on. I may not have worded it properly, but what I really meant was, let them debate and don't feel like it's a personal attack that always requires a response.

Hahaha... yup, you are right, and I'm sorry if my response seemed snarky. I hang out here a lot (Too much? Hey, it's the off-season!), and I see a lot of the same sort of back and forth in many threads. I think that you are correct in that the OP doesn't have a lot of experience in this particular online forum, and some of the more enthusiastic posters come off as being accusatory.

I guess it's important if you are isasking for help from experienced people - in any field - that you not concentrate on a defense of your actions, but rather just listen and see what applies and what doesn't. We don't have the luxury of knowing exactly what happened, so maybe some of our suggestions are off-base, but I really believe that they are all well intentioned...