Diving Accident on Monterey Dive Boat
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Bubbletrubble
Contributor
We don't know how accurate this info is, but clearly this is not how a dive threesome should react to a buddy separation.
I'm curious to hear whether this was an insta-buddy situation in which the victim was attached to a pair on the boat.
This was a horrible weekend for California diving -- fatalities all along the coast (San Diego, Laguna Beach, Monterey area).
OP
Bogie
Contributor
This is from the KSBW:
MONTEREY COUNTY, Calif. -- An Oakland man drowned while scuba diving near Point Lobos on Sunday, deputies said.
Andrew Witkin, 58, was found unresponsive on the ocean floor off Point Lobos on Sunday. He was taken to the surface and then transported to the Community Hospital of the Monterey Peninsula, where he was pronounced dead.
An autopsy will be done Monday to determine a cause of death.
MONTEREY COUNTY, Calif. -- An Oakland man drowned while scuba diving near Point Lobos on Sunday, deputies said.
Andrew Witkin, 58, was found unresponsive on the ocean floor off Point Lobos on Sunday. He was taken to the surface and then transported to the Community Hospital of the Monterey Peninsula, where he was pronounced dead.
An autopsy will be done Monday to determine a cause of death.
emilyrose
Registered
I know I'm coming to this thread a bit late, but considering that the diver in question was my dad, I might be able to clear a few things up...
First off, I think the news stories probably established this already, but it's definitely not just a rumor. Having seen my dad's body today, I think I can say that with a reasonable degree of confidence.
The person who found him is a dive master but wasn't in charge of this particular trip. She'd been diving already, and yes, she was looking for a fin at the time, but it's not like she put on scuba gear just to look for a fin -- she probably hadn't even gotten out of the water yet, and just went back to look for the missing fin. And if it was anything like the last dive I went on with my dad, which was in the same area, and on which he lost a fin, there's no reason to think it would have been floating on the surface -- his fin was tangled in some kelp somewhere, and we never did find it, but even though it was positively buoyant and normally would have floated, it definitely wasn't floating at the surface, and looking for it would have required swimming around under water, not just looking around at the surface.
Also, assuming that he did have his camera with him at the time, the light she saw would have been his focus light, which is bright enough that he used it as his only light on a night dive this summer and it was as bright as any of our flashlights, so while I doubt that it could have been seen from the surface, I wouldn't be at all surprised if that was the first thing she saw. I don't know for sure whether he had his camera with him on that particular dive. He did have it with him on the boat that day, but he only took 19 pictures that day, and all of them were on the boat, and since I've known him to take his camera with him on a dive trip and decide not to take in the water, but I've never known him to have his camera in his hands and not take any pictures, I don't know that he had actually taken his camera down with him, and if he had, I have to wonder if something went wrong even earlier in the dive than we thought.
They've already done the autopsy the news stories mentioned, but it didn't really tell us anything. All they determined is that there wasn't any evidence of a cause of death unrelated to diving (e.g. heart attack or stroke), and there was water in his lungs, so it looks like it was most likely a diving accident rather than a medical incident that just happened to take place while he was diving. However, my dad was a cautious, responsible diver, and was using high quality equipment that he took good care of, so I can't think of anything that would have put him at particularly high risk for something like this.
Disclaimer: I wasn't there and haven't spoken directly to anyone who anyone who was, so I don't know for sure what happened, or what anyone did that day. Nothing I've said here is intended to be an official statement of any kind, and I am in no way speaking on behalf of my mother, who is his next of kin, or anyone else. Any inferences I make from the information I have at this time reflect only my understanding of what happened based on currently available information, and may be incorrect, and may change if new information becomes available, or as people more qualified to investigate the incident examine the available evidence. I am in no way qualified to make any sort of definitive statements about what happened, or to speak on behalf of my family on this matter, and should the situation arise I sincerely hope that nothing I've said in this post will be used in any legal context.
First off, I think the news stories probably established this already, but it's definitely not just a rumor. Having seen my dad's body today, I think I can say that with a reasonable degree of confidence.
The person who found him is a dive master but wasn't in charge of this particular trip. She'd been diving already, and yes, she was looking for a fin at the time, but it's not like she put on scuba gear just to look for a fin -- she probably hadn't even gotten out of the water yet, and just went back to look for the missing fin. And if it was anything like the last dive I went on with my dad, which was in the same area, and on which he lost a fin, there's no reason to think it would have been floating on the surface -- his fin was tangled in some kelp somewhere, and we never did find it, but even though it was positively buoyant and normally would have floated, it definitely wasn't floating at the surface, and looking for it would have required swimming around under water, not just looking around at the surface.
Also, assuming that he did have his camera with him at the time, the light she saw would have been his focus light, which is bright enough that he used it as his only light on a night dive this summer and it was as bright as any of our flashlights, so while I doubt that it could have been seen from the surface, I wouldn't be at all surprised if that was the first thing she saw. I don't know for sure whether he had his camera with him on that particular dive. He did have it with him on the boat that day, but he only took 19 pictures that day, and all of them were on the boat, and since I've known him to take his camera with him on a dive trip and decide not to take in the water, but I've never known him to have his camera in his hands and not take any pictures, I don't know that he had actually taken his camera down with him, and if he had, I have to wonder if something went wrong even earlier in the dive than we thought.
They've already done the autopsy the news stories mentioned, but it didn't really tell us anything. All they determined is that there wasn't any evidence of a cause of death unrelated to diving (e.g. heart attack or stroke), and there was water in his lungs, so it looks like it was most likely a diving accident rather than a medical incident that just happened to take place while he was diving. However, my dad was a cautious, responsible diver, and was using high quality equipment that he took good care of, so I can't think of anything that would have put him at particularly high risk for something like this.
Disclaimer: I wasn't there and haven't spoken directly to anyone who anyone who was, so I don't know for sure what happened, or what anyone did that day. Nothing I've said here is intended to be an official statement of any kind, and I am in no way speaking on behalf of my mother, who is his next of kin, or anyone else. Any inferences I make from the information I have at this time reflect only my understanding of what happened based on currently available information, and may be incorrect, and may change if new information becomes available, or as people more qualified to investigate the incident examine the available evidence. I am in no way qualified to make any sort of definitive statements about what happened, or to speak on behalf of my family on this matter, and should the situation arise I sincerely hope that nothing I've said in this post will be used in any legal context.
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I am so very for your loss. You have been unbelievable kind to post information for us at this time. We are all saddened when any diver does not make it safely to the surface. Again, thank you.
emilyrose
Registered
I don't know exactly what happened in this regard since we haven't talked in any detail to anyone on the boat yet (at the advice of her friend, my mom wants to wait until we're sure there won't be any possible liability issues, although personally I think we already know that the professionals involved did nothing wrong, so the only liability I can see would only arise if I meet his buddy/buddies, and would probably involve some form of assault). However, as far as I know, the only person on the trip he knew in advance was the dive master who found him, although he may have met some of the other divers on previous trips, he was probably diving with a person or people he met on the boat, although from past experience and because he had apparently taken several pictures of some of the other divers on the trip, I doubt that he was just randomly assigned people to dive with.
The coroner still has his dive computer, so I haven't seen it myself, but what we were told is that the computer shows that he stopped using his air about 10 minutes into the dive, and was not found until about 25 minutes after that. We'll probably never know exactly what went wrong down there, but it's entirely possible that if it hadn't taken so long for someone to find him, he might still be alive. So yeah, I'd have to agree it was not the right way to handle a buddy separation. When I first learned to dive, one of the first things they taught us was never let your buddy out of your sight. His buddy or buddies did, and while he was out of their sight, he died, without any opportunity to signal for help, and without their ever knowing anything was wrong until it was too late.
Disclaimer: I wasn't there and haven't spoken directly to anyone who anyone who was, so I don't know for sure what happened, or what anyone did that day. Nothing I've said here is intended to be an official statement of any kind, and I am in no way speaking on behalf of my mother, who is his next of kin, or anyone else. Any inferences I make from the information I have at this time reflect only my understanding of what happened based on currently available information, and may be incorrect, and may change if new information becomes available, or as people more qualified to investigate the incident examine the available evidence. I am in no way qualified to make any sort of definitive statements about what happened, or to speak on behalf of my family on this matter, and should the situation arise I sincerely hope that nothing I've said in this post will be used in any legal context.
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taucherguy
Registered
Thank you for your post. My condolences to you and your family.
Ben_ca
Contributor
Emily,
Thanks for providing some clarification on the things that you know. It always seams to tear the community apart when a tragedy like this happens. There is even more frustration with not knowing what happened and how we can prevent another accident from happening again. I applaud your strength and courage. It must be hard. Please accept my condolences and of the local divers represented here...
Stay strong and thanks again.
Ben
Thanks for providing some clarification on the things that you know. It always seams to tear the community apart when a tragedy like this happens. There is even more frustration with not knowing what happened and how we can prevent another accident from happening again. I applaud your strength and courage. It must be hard. Please accept my condolences and of the local divers represented here...
Stay strong and thanks again.
Ben
emilyrose
Registered
He was my dad, so I know a little more about what happened than has been in the papers. I already posted in the thread James mentioned, but there is one thing I wanted to post here as well, because I think it's important, and hopefully people can learn from it and not make the same mistake that may well have cost my dad his life.
My dad was supposedly diving with one or two other people. Apparently they got separated, and his buddy or buddies didn't go back for him -- they just kept swimming, and left him behind. We were told that his dive computer showed that he stopped using his air 10 minutes into the dive, but it was not until 25 minutes after that that someone (not his buddy) found him. The person who found him was actually looking for a lost fin at the time, and it was just chance that she saw him lying unconscious at the ocean floor. As far as we know, no one was looking for him even though he'd been separated from his buddy for at least 25 minutes at that point. We don't know, and will probably never know exactly what went wrong down there, but whatever happened, it's entirely possible that if someone had been there to bring him to the surface right away, he would still be alive, and I'd still be planning for our next dive trip together instead of his funeral, and he would have been there to see his oldest daughter graduate college in a few months, and his youngest daughter a few years after that.
When I first learned to dive, one of the first things they taught us was always stay with your buddy. After however many dives with nothing ever going wrong, it's easy to stop worrying if your buddy is out of sight for a minute or two (or 25, apparently), but every so often something does go wrong, and having stayed with your buddy could turn out to be a matter of life and death.
Disclaimer: I wasn't there and haven't spoken directly to anyone who anyone who was, so I don't know for sure what happened, or what anyone did that day. Nothing I've said here is intended to be an official statement of any kind, and I am in no way speaking on behalf of my mother, who is his next of kin, or anyone else. Any inferences I make from the information I have at this time reflect only my understanding of what happened based on currently available information, and may be incorrect, and may change if new information becomes available, or as people more qualified to investigate the incident examine the available evidence. I am in no way qualified to make any sort of definitive statements about what happened, or to speak on behalf of my family on this matter, and should the situation arise I sincerely hope that nothing I've said in this post will be used in any legal context.
My dad was supposedly diving with one or two other people. Apparently they got separated, and his buddy or buddies didn't go back for him -- they just kept swimming, and left him behind. We were told that his dive computer showed that he stopped using his air 10 minutes into the dive, but it was not until 25 minutes after that that someone (not his buddy) found him. The person who found him was actually looking for a lost fin at the time, and it was just chance that she saw him lying unconscious at the ocean floor. As far as we know, no one was looking for him even though he'd been separated from his buddy for at least 25 minutes at that point. We don't know, and will probably never know exactly what went wrong down there, but whatever happened, it's entirely possible that if someone had been there to bring him to the surface right away, he would still be alive, and I'd still be planning for our next dive trip together instead of his funeral, and he would have been there to see his oldest daughter graduate college in a few months, and his youngest daughter a few years after that.
When I first learned to dive, one of the first things they taught us was always stay with your buddy. After however many dives with nothing ever going wrong, it's easy to stop worrying if your buddy is out of sight for a minute or two (or 25, apparently), but every so often something does go wrong, and having stayed with your buddy could turn out to be a matter of life and death.
Disclaimer: I wasn't there and haven't spoken directly to anyone who anyone who was, so I don't know for sure what happened, or what anyone did that day. Nothing I've said here is intended to be an official statement of any kind, and I am in no way speaking on behalf of my mother, who is his next of kin, or anyone else. Any inferences I make from the information I have at this time reflect only my understanding of what happened based on currently available information, and may be incorrect, and may change if new information becomes available, or as people more qualified to investigate the incident examine the available evidence. I am in no way qualified to make any sort of definitive statements about what happened, or to speak on behalf of my family on this matter, and should the situation arise I sincerely hope that nothing I've said in this post will be used in any legal context.
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emilyrose
Registered
When I looked back at this thread today (I admit I wasn't entirely sober last night, and wanted to see if I'd missed anything), it looks like a few people who posted were either diving in the area that weekend and saw something was happening, or have talked to people who seem to have more information than what's been in the news so far. I'm still trying to piece together as much as I can about what happened, and it's probably going to be a while still before I'm allowed to talk to anyone who was on the boat, so if anyone knows or has heard anything about what happened that hasn't already been said, even if it's unconfirmed rumor or speculation, I'd appreciate any additional information anyone has. Of course don't publicly identify anyone involved (other than yourself of course), and if there's anything that seems important that would identify anyone involved and there's no way to explain it that would protect their privacy, maybe just send me a PM or something, but don't post it publicly -- the people involved who I know (the person who found him, and the boat captain) have gone well beyond anything that could be expected of them, and my understanding is that the person who found him even risked her own safety by coming straight up, without a safety stop and probably significant faster than recommended assent rates, to get him out of the water as quickly as possible, and I don't know anything else about who was on the boat but others may have also acted commendably at the time, so I think it's particularly important to protect the privacy of everyone involved because of the risk of publicly criticizing someone undeservedly.
Also, I only found this forum because I was checking for anything that might have been said about my dad since the accident, but he always seemed particularly at ease around other divers, and it seems appropriate that there is a dive community like this that reacts this way to dive accidents even without personally knowing the victim (I've seen one person post here who did know my dad, and of course I can't always tell who people are from their screen names, but as far as I know the majority of people who have posted here didn't know him). And I'm glad to have found this site, even though it could have been under better circumstances -- it seems like it'll be a great resource for my own diving in the future.
Also, I only found this forum because I was checking for anything that might have been said about my dad since the accident, but he always seemed particularly at ease around other divers, and it seems appropriate that there is a dive community like this that reacts this way to dive accidents even without personally knowing the victim (I've seen one person post here who did know my dad, and of course I can't always tell who people are from their screen names, but as far as I know the majority of people who have posted here didn't know him). And I'm glad to have found this site, even though it could have been under better circumstances -- it seems like it'll be a great resource for my own diving in the future.
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