Divers Down watch out!

[ScubaSteve]

Speaking for myself primarily, I let the OP have it not because he admitted being a new diver and having some things to learn. He came onto SB to not accept any of that but to HAMMER a DM who just did her job. He was at fault and not her. Had he come here and said here is a report and it was bad but I guess I need to learn some stuff....this thread would have gone a different way. He joined only to lambaste an innocent. This never goes well here on ScubaBoard.

Wow, the original poster is getting hammered. Weren't we all newbie divers at one point ? At least they gave a detailed report listing their issues. I agree, many of the issues were his/her own responsibility, but I bet other new divers would like a lot of guidance and assisstance too. In my experience in the Caribbean, most of what the OP expected, is typically provided by the DM/shop. You can call it great service or hand holding. Even though it's not required, it's what I normally see/experience in the Caribbean.

 

[krbailey]

Wow, the original poster is getting hammered. Weren't we all newbie divers at one point ? At least they gave a detailed report listing their issues. I agree, many of the issues were his/her own responsibility, but I bet other new divers would like a lot of guidance and assisstance too. In my experience in the Caribbean, most of what the OP expected, is typically provided by the DM/shop. You can call it great service or hand holding. Even though it's not required, it's what I normally see/experience in the Caribbean.

Ronscuba,

I think posts like these might be better served in the Basic Scuba forum. IMO, the OP sounds like a fairly new diver (I could be wrong) who didn't understand the role of a DM - much like myself (see the above posts). I think education in what can be expected of a DM and what is the diver's responsibility (see JimLap's post) would have been a better response to the post than the beat-down delivered here. Ultimately, everything is the diver's responsibility. The kinder, gentler tone of the Basic Scuba forum may educate better than the free-for-all here. Although the OP did bash the dive op, taking the high road in responding to his post may have helped the OP resolve his issues and change his opinion of the dive op.

 

[krbailey]

ScubaSteve001,

"He joined only to lambaste an innocent. This never goes well here on ScubaBoard."

Truer words were never spoken!

 

[sea nmf]

After reading the entire thread, I have a couple of observations, FWIW.

I can understand the OP wanting more attention from the DM. Like the other posters, however, I agree that it was not communicated to the DM. Sometimes our expectations are not based on reality. This lead the OP to think the DM was unprofessional. I hope, after reading the responses here, he knows that was not the case.

Some of us were harsh in our responses to the OP. These just make it harder for the OP to get the message. Some of us were calm and logical in our responses. I hope the OP was able to hear those points. He may not do a lot of diving between his vacations. If this is the case, his inexperience will continue to be an issue, and possibly become a major incident in later vacations. For this reason, the lesson to take is to communicate with the dives ops and clearly state your expectations. If met, because they are really above and beyond, remember to tip well. In addition, re-read your manuals before each trip. Go over everything with your buddy. These steps, at a minimum, will help you.

Finally, I feel sad that your first post here is one to bash a dive op. Spend some time here. Read posts from others that may help you in the future.

 

[Web Monkey]

Thanks for the info. I certainly relied on my DM's way too much in the past. With no DM in the FL keys last month, it was a good learning experience. I planned my dives much more thoroughly and modified the standard dive plan as the trip progressed to take into account things I learned on previous dives. I was much more conservative on this trip than I had been on other "resort" dives with a DM that I have done. Consequently I felt more confident in my abilities and much more in tune with my limitations.

This goes back to my premise in a different thread about "guided" dives. I'd be willing to bet that if the boat pulled up to a reef and the captain said "We're anchored at about 60' over a reef. Go down, stay with your buddy and be back on the boat with a minimum of 500PSI", that pretty much the entire group would have stayed within 100' of the anchor and the entire thing would have been a non-event.

This is more of an observation than a knock against DMs. Unless specifically requested, we don't send anybody into the water with certified divers off our shop's boat. Even though the lake approaches 400' deep in some sections and has some nice wall and drift dives, almost without exception, the divers dive where they're comfortable. Some stay right around the boat, some hang out in 20' in the weeds watching fish, but I don't recall anybody who hit the water with no post-certification dives and took off for 100'+.

Terry

 

[krbailey]

Web Monkey,

"We're anchored at about 60' over a reef. Go down, stay with your buddy and be back on the boat with a minimum of 500PSI", that pretty much the entire group would have stayed within 100' of the anchor and the entire thing would have been a non-event.

That could have been the dive briefing word-for-word on my trip to the Keys! After surfacing 100 yds from the boat on our first dive due to poor navigation skills on our part and not being able to descend again easily due to underweighting and pretty choppy seas, I did not "enjoy" (read: near panic) the swim back to the boat. Consequently, my buddy and I made a more detailed plan for the next dive and surfaced right under the ladder with 500psi for the remainder of the trip. Gotta stay within your limits!

 

[--tom--]

If I am paying for a DM, whether it's by my choosing or as part of the dive price (when dive op or local regs require), I am paying for their expertise and judgement.

You make an interesting point that I don't really grasp, but partly because of where I dive. I agree that the DM should have strong local knowledge, & understands depth, turnaround points etc. It never occured to me that the DM would hold your hand unless you specifically hired the DM to do that. Part of the reason is the ratio. How can one person control/monitor 8 (the OP's original group) semi-experienced divers & still show cool stuff and guide you home?

Think about a rescue situation, it's tough trying to rescue one, does the inexperienced diver really expect the DM to save multiples? The DM has no choice but to depend on group's training and intelligence if something goes horribly wrong.

Thanks for the insight. It makes my job more scary.

 

[ScubaRafiki]

Tom, you make a very good point - when I guide a dive every group is different. It is easy to clock how comfortable people are in the water. If I can see I have a less experienced group, I will not look as much for things to point out to them as I want to watch the divers more. On the other hand, with highly experienced divers, they will pretty much get on with the dive themselves, I'll stay will them (if they want me to!) and try to find cool stuff for them to see.

Eagles Nest happens to be a very good site for seeing turtles on, but that doesn't mean that you will see them on every dive, especially if the DM is more concerned about the group rather than finding stuff. It's not your fault if you are inexperienced, but until you are really comfortable (which is not difficult for a DM to tell) then they probably won't be able to show you everything you would like whether it is there or not. Had I been in the DM's shoes, I would have probably chosen Eagle's Nest. It is a good site with a good chance of seeing cool stuff, but also not too demanding as a deep dive, especially when diving with a new group of people (there are no swim-throughs on it).

 

[ronscuba]

The typical modern day certification process is more concerned with making money and getting people through quickly than properly training a diver.

Many resort or vacation destination dive operators see so many new or inexperienced divers, they provide a service above and beyond what is required of a DM. Call it baby sitting or hand holding, whatever, it's commonplace in vacation/resort settings to the point that some divers expect it and complain if they don't get it.

Hopefully this thread has educated the OP and other inexperienced divers. And hopefully the OP and lurkers find that Scubaboard is filled with tons of information provided by members willing to share their knowledge/experience, although a little harsh at times.

 

[RonFrank]

There are a few factors here.

First the battery incident. That likely frazzled the DM to some extent, and she was likely in a bit more of a hurry than otherwise.

The second is the ear incident. The DM spent time with ONE diver during the decent, and she likely felt a bit rushed to get down to the remainder of the group.

The divers were off a cruise boat, so taking them down to 115' on a wall was not likely the best choice of dives, but I can not blame the DM for that choice.

It sounds like there was little communication between the cruse boats, the OP, and the DM. I certainly would NOT take ANY rookie diver 115' down a wall, especially in a group so large.

However the divers must ultimately take responsibility for THEIR dives. I DID go to 115' in my first twenty dives (around dive 18 with an AOW cert). But I did so with a dedicated Instructor (thaks Key Largo Brent), who watched me like a hawk, so one on one. As a newish diver, standing there nodding your head like it was on a spring while the DM explains that they will be taking you down to 115' is JUST foolish! I think the OW books says 60' max, so where was that training?

However rather than name calling, or playing the blame game it would be nice to see everyone settle down, and take some positives from this thread. This thread was reported, so while I am not here moderating this thread, let's everyone take a deep breath before posting, and not play the blame game.

There is always two sides to a story, and the truth generally lies somewhere in the middle. It think the fact that the DM was not aware of the experience, or lack there of is a key factor. This could have been addressed by the divers, the DiveOp, or the Cruise Op.

Ultimately I blame the divers because they were standing there talking to the DM, and did not bother to say a word, but the DiveOp could have also collected this info, and passed it on. If something would have gone horribly south, the DiveOp and DM would be the first in the line of fire... so obtaining this info IMO is ultimately in their best interest.