Divers Adrift in Key Largo

[my1ocean]

Unfortunaterly the divers on the comm ops are not accustomed to the high seas that our reefs and wrecks bring sometimes and we read way to many stories about accidents in the local paper. I guess the question is do we further regulate the in dustry when it comes to sea conditions pertaining to dive ops,of course this would impact the profit margin. I understand about the boat renters and now i am posing another question.

I think you're missing my point. This issue is not one of regulation.

 

[deeper thoughts]

I think you're missing my point. This issue is not one of regulation.

Actually no if you read the last sentence i am bringing up another topic now, point not taken i guesss

 

[jchaplain]

Can you please explain how you stay connected by the reel?

When I dive I have a loop of chain and rope attached to the anchor which I use to throw around a big rock so that the anchor cannot drift at all. Then I tie a line to the anchor ( the end of the line on my dive reel ) and swim off. This way I at least know I can find the anchor and that the anchor will absolutley still be there. Now I have to hope that the boat is still attached to the anchor! lol.... But when diving in nice calm waters and safe areas and keeping good anchor line maintained it will be. Worst case someone steals the boat then I swim to shore since I always do this pretty near shore and file an insurance claim and get a brand new boat! ( It really never happens that people steal your unattended boat here in the Boston area anyway...the CG would be on them way too quick so it's really not a concern.)

John C.

 

[jchaplain]

I think he mentioned earlier using a chain for an anchor line, then a reel connected to the anchor for his diving.

His approach to leaving an unattended boat is much sounder than the victims from the story.

Thanks for the acknowledgement on that. You're right, those guys probably had it coming for putting themselves in danger. But there are many things that can be done very safely that might seem foolhardy at first glance.

How about those folks that go ice climbing mountains in the dead of winter climbing treacherous cliffs covered with ice and depending on ropes to keep them from falling to certain death....wow.....not for me but it just shows that it can be done with minimum risk.

I'm more of a dive on a sunny calm day only 40-60 feet deep off my boat near land kind of a guy. I'm no big risk taker I can assure you!

John C.

 

[ba_hiker]

http://www.mcmurdo.co.uk/?Menu=17&Page=/Contents/ListProducts.asp&Tech=True&ID=8115

says they are only rated to a spec for 1 meter imerrsion

However, there appears to be a "dive cannister" that is rated
to 150 meters.
http://www.mcmurdo.co.uk/?Menu=17&Page=/Contents/ListProducts.asp&ID=1094

Kinda a neat idea. especially for diving in questionable condidtions.

It might be expensive, but I guarentee I could sell them to these guys who are in the news story for twice the list price.

edit:

wow... I didn't realize how expensive that dive canister was for it. ($295).

how deep can you take a small pelican box?

Get the canister. If there is any water in the unit its no good, and you wont know until you need it. Thas why they use the $100 lithium batteries too. Figure about $1000 for the GPS coupled PLB, canister, and other location devices (smoke, flares, dye packs).

Read up on how EPIRBs work before putting too much trust in them. They advertize 10 minutes before rescue is on the way, but it RARELY works that way. Check what the Coast guard says instead (2 to 4 hour delay). There are about 20 false alerts for each real one. This is much better than the earlier generation (ELTs) where there were many more than 99 false alerts for every real one. The false alerts consume as much coast guard resources as the real ones do, so dont fool around with them.

Part of the reason is a set of changes in procedure. They wait for two satalite hits before launching a search, unless the emergency has been comunicated some other way. Launching a search is not automatic, there are three people invloved before it even gets to search and rescue. In this case they might have been found in 4 hours instead of 10, if they had an EPIRB. Still this is quite an advantage. Florida and Hawaii are the best locations for their use. Elsewhere it is much worse.

Look up on the Coast Guard sites or wikipedia before you count on just an EPIRB. Check out this site http://www.tabula-international.com/DIV/SMB3.html
to see what you will look like to an airplane at 700 ft. Look at the second picture on the page to get some idea of what you look like on a clear day, with no waves. Remember he has release a dye marker and a large SMB. You are a very small target, even if they locate your EPIRB to 100 ft, and fly over you at 1000. It gets much worse if there are any waves, white caps, or junk on the surface. Dye packs are pretty easy to spot from the air, if it dosn't dispurse before the plane gets there.

If you are going to carry an EPIRB also carry other stuff to facilitate visual location. Flares, signal mirrors, smoke, surface streamers and dye packs are all useful. Make sure that you register your EPIRB if you get one, unregistered they are useless. Even without an EPIRB don't count on much searching going on after dusk. The link above has a great review.

Its much better to take reasonable precautions to prevent the need for a rescue. Consider the risk factors of the dive before you make it, rather than hoping some bit of electrical gear will save you bacon. If you leave your boat make sure that it is very securly anchored, as mentioned earlier. Here we tie our dive reels off to the boat if we do this. This will let you know quickly if the boat starts to drift. Lost at sea kinds of incedents are realy quire rare.

Check out incedents about how many out of air, medical problems and intanglement incidents there are. Even shark attacks are much more common.

 

[ba_hiker]

The conditions the day these gentlemen went out diving were, in a word, crappy. The winds were onshore and about 20-25 kts. Seas were 6-8 ft reported by one of the local dive ops that tried to run a trip but turned around and cancled. If a person really wants to dive in such conditions to a depth of aprox. 25 ft with vis most likely around 5 ft, so be it. Yes, I do question the reasoning for this, but again, so be it. The real problem comes from mooring a 2200 lbs vessel with a 1/4 inch to 5/8 inch line in 5-7 ft choppy seas and expecting it to be there when you return.

I don't appologize for this rant. It makes me mad that these two have recieved press praising their survival of shark infested waters, cold, and their mental battle for survival. The most dangerous thing these two survived was their own stupidity. If these guys want press, they have to take the bad with the good and here's the bad. The ugly unembelished truth.
cheers

Right on. There is nothing like local klnowledge and a bit of experience. Remember when you call for rescue you are putting several peoples lives at risk. Aircrews, helo crews, and pararescue divers at the least.

And with 5 to 7 ft seas VHF location is problematic at least. This would reduce the range and the likelyhood of a fast location of any EPIRB. To say nothing of the chances of being seen from aircraft, even with dye packs, and streamers. Sounds like whitecaps were likley too, so flares or strobes wouldn't be very useful.

 

[deeper thoughts]

the next time we dive i am going to try the dive reel.
thnx

 

[ba_hiker]

Good idea, also make sure that you use a heavy enough anchor, strong enough anchor rode, and enough scope. Size up the anchor and rode at least one size, and enough rode to have enough if the tide comes in or the waves increase.

If you are out of the boat never use an anchor rated as a 'lunch hook', use a working anchor in good conditions, and don't do it if you need a storm anchor. Make sure there is no chafing on the rode either.

All that said I dive from an unoccupied boat regularly

 

[jchaplain]

Good idea, also make sure that you use a heavy enough anchor, strong enough anchor rode, and enough scope. Size up the anchor and rode at least one size, and enough rode to have enough if the tide comes in or the waves increase.

If you are out of the boat never use an anchor rated as a 'lunch hook', use a working anchor in good conditions, and don't do it if you need a storm anchor. Make sure there is no chafing on the rode either.

All that said I dive from an unoccupied boat regularly

Well....actually I use an anchor that is way undersize. Since I usually lift it a bunch of times in one day it gets pretty heavy. I find that using a lightweight anchor with a lot of chain works fine, especially when I chain it around a large boulder
I'll drop anchor, suit up and then go right to the anchor to chain it down to something.
Now if you're doing this in sand with nothing to chain the anchor to....yes...you better have a big anchor. I have a large danforth that I can use in this case, or better yet I probably would try harder to find someone to babysit the boat up top. Each day/ location can be a new set of conditions to consider wisely.

 

[jchaplain]

the next time we dive i am going to try the dive reel.
thnx

Great! Try it...I really like the extra sense of security it gives me knowing I won't get lost, but they do take a little practice to work with without tangling the spool.

The dive reel is a safe way to go, but even more important in areas that the vis is low and it's easy to get lost...like Boston Harbor most of the time. Another reason I like to use a dive reel because I know I will come back up the anchor line under my boat and not surface somewhere in the path of some oncoming boat.

And one more benefit is that if you are diving with a buddy in low vis and you get seperated it makes it easier for you to find your buddy ( or your buddy to find you ) by circling back and finding the line.

John C.