Diver Safety/Preparedness – An Informal Study

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Lot's of good comments from many experienced divers. This is a good topic.

I was first certified in 1972. I have a couple thousand dives and almost 30 years working in the SCUBA industry.

I'm certainly no expert, nor instructor.

I have been in hundreds of Dive Stores and talked to thousands of divers.

The late 70's and early 80's were actually the boom years for new diver growth. The industry was growing at 20%+ per year.

SCUBA missed generation X and Y and we now have fewer actual new certs than we did 20 or so years ago-new certs not
other courses-so, the number of new divers, as a % of the population has decreased.

Many of the newer divers are weekend warriors who-pointed out by many-get certified fast and quick to go on a vacation and
never really take up diving again. This is reflected in a decrease in hardware equipment sales as these new divers often just
rent when they are on vacation and only own their M/F/S.

Local diving, which was the mainstay of diving in the 70's and 80's, is now in 2nd place to the vacation diving. If you go to DEMA,
or any of the consumer shows, you will see that the travel folks are predominate. They have their 10X10 booths with the colorful brochures
of their destination.

It used to be that if you went to warm water from a cold water area the warm water folks knew you were competent and safe since you
learned to dive a thick wetsuit-or nice drysuit-knew how to handle yourself without a dive guide or U/W babysitter.

Well-times have changed.

Are we "safer"? I don't know.

My take is that the active local dive community has shrunk considerably. The quick course cannot have helped in dive safety and
the end result turns out to be fewer divers. The DEMA town meetings at the various consumer shows seem to confirm this from
the feedback that the local instructors have been giving to the DEMA folks.

Thanks Elizabeth-Good thread.
 
I was certified NAUI basic back in 1972. I still remember alot of the characters in my class back then. We had an Instructor who was extremely strong in skills and fitness, and he and I had to continually challenge each other throughout the course--culminating in a swan dive off the top of a lighthouse or similar structure, in the Lake Erie/Niagra River. Everyone in the class had to go through serious skills perfection, and harassment. Ditch and don had to be perfect, as did buddy breathing with the one 2nd stage reg passed back and forth ( no octos back then). Free ascending was taught and perfected for when the J -valve was not enought to get you to the surface, and everyone perfected the weight they would need for a dive, because nobody used BC's back then.
There was a hot girl in the class, a topless dancer...there was a really big guy--he needed about 30 pounds of lead minimal without a wetsuit...but he still managed to do all skills at a perfect level, even the swim test....he beat me on the survival float, as back then, I would sink like a rock :)
Every one ( I think 6 students) was strong in the water, and NO one was a "dependent" diver when they got their c -card. No one would have needed a DM for anything, and each would have been shocked at the idea of someone needing a DM on a dive. These were all people with adventurous lifestyles, and exactly the opposite of the couch potatoe of today that would try tandem skydiving or bungie jumping under the idea that this was adventure.


The certification courses in 1972 took more than 2 weeks ( dont remember exactly) and was expensive for most people at the time.

When diving in the 90's, things began going downhill for the "kind" of person who would become a diver...it opened up from real adventurers somewhere in the early 90's, to the yuppies. All training had to be made easier, DM's became essential on dive boats, and the training agencies began to go wild over how they could suck in even more people.


I think it has been a downhill slant in skill and "natural diver ability levels" since the late 80's or early nineties. In the 60's and 70's, there were plenty of "natural divers" who were great from the very first time they jumped in the water. If it was 30% of new divers in the 60's and 70's, it might be 1% or less now, given the much expanded market base which includes a majority of people who were not cut out to be serious adventuers or explorers.

Here is a clip of a new class of students at BHB....the students nothing like the students of the 70's, the instructor nothing like the instructors of the 70's.
YouTube - ‪instructing-or-not‬‏ I believe this is what you get when you use mass marketing and volume pricing....Like a car advertisement screaming " HALF PRICE OR MORE!!!" ...For respondents to this in dive certification, you get a group that is buying for the wrong reasons, and they were skimmed from a general population of discount hunters, rather than found within a group of adventure sports athletes....
 
I was invited to participate, but there have been enormous "gaps" in my diving since 1976, and my lifetime total is still probably south of 1,000 dives.

As an entirely unremarkable "sport diver", the main change I see is the reduction of general swimming skills, and the shift from physical ability to reliance on equipment (and dive masters!) to keep the newly-minted diver "safe" during their first several dives post-OW certification.

I assisted with classes (PADI) in the late '70's... I observed (and informally assisted) with my childrens' PADI OW class in 2007. The core instuction was good; but the physical standards regarding fitness and swimming ability had declined.

I'm not a dive professional, and not even a particularly "talented" diver, but do feel that the relaxing of swim and fitness standards is a mistake.

Best wishes.
 
Working for an agency and having served on that agency's Training Advisory Panel, my overall perception is that while the standards for an average diver to earn his/her certification may or may not have changed in the past ten to 15 years -- and it would be extremely complicated to form a matrix for meaningful comparison -- the overall fitness level of the average diver DOES seem to have dropped.
I wonder if the average age of students hasn't gone up, diving was affordable back in the day, but now takes a bit more cash ... youngsters often don't have it.
During the "early days" of scuba, when instruction was delivered mostly by men and women who made their living working on, in and around water, I believe a standard open-water diver course demanded more of its participants. Agencies such as YMCA, BSAC, CMAS et al, put forward entry requirements that challenged wanna-be divers to demonstrate a fluency with watercraft well beyond the basic "swim a couple of lengths without drowning." This approach was self-limiting; people who were not strong swimmers tended to avoid diving and gravitate to other activities. The cadre of instructors tended to reinforce this in attitude, advice and practice... there were few if any exceptions made to this standard, I believe.
But we're supposed to be comparing over the last ten years.
In addition -- and based purely on subjective observation -- the average age of the people signed up for a scuba course seemed to be twenties or early thirties; younger than seems to be common today. Read into this what you may, but logic would suggest that the average 20-year old uni student is more able to withstand the physical rigors of diving -- whatever they may be -- with less stress and angst than the average fifty-something overweight, mildly hyper-tense dentist/lawyer/real-estate broker/sales professional (apologies to those of you who fit this generalization).
Agreed, as stated earlier.
The inevitable conclusion from where I sit then is this: The industry stats are inconclusive and it is close to impossible to find data to support either argument pro or con increased diver preparedness and safety. Levels of DCS for example have dropped dramatically during the past decade... even though more divers conduct staged decompression dives.
I suspect this has two causes: Computers (especially the ascent rate measuring and reduction) and the destigmatization of decompression diving; it is far better to make a planed deco dive and know how to do stops that to make a dive right to the limit and the a direct ascent because you were not supposed to do "decompression diving."
...

So, in my opinion, and without any science to back me up, I would say that there are more divers today who are able to prepare and execute a safe dive plan than ever before. Their gear is better, better understood and successfully utilized. However, these divers form a much smaller percentage of the overall numbers of folks who dive. In other words, there are also more divers today who are total and complete Muppets.
I am fascinated at what the alleged "improvement" in gear is? How is today's gear any better (or as good) as say a Voit MR-12 or Dacor 300, with a FENZY, a Swimmmaster Wideview mask, a pair of gum rubber Duck Feet or Jet Fins, etc.? Computers I see as a big addition, but the rest of it? Naw.
...
I think we have seen a steady decline in the ability of recently trained divers, but the decline was much earlier than the mid-90's. The certification level of divers now means almost nothing.

I am amazed at the number of instructors (usually PADI) that are just terrible in the water. Now, when talking with a prospective dive buddy, I don't even ask certification level, I just inquire about experience; certification is meaningless and if somebody brags about being an instructor, I am more likely to decline to dive with them.
Agreed, but it is not just a PADI problem, that's an artifact of the numbers of them out there.
On the other hand, when I used to teach the PADI OW class, I was always amazed at how well it was constructed, how the modules and skills and things all worked together to provide students an extremely efficient means to learn diving. The biggest problem was that it was way too short. I strongly encouraged all my students to immediately sign up for AOW or join a club or sometimes, I would even recommend they do baby dives with each other.. but I tried to push the idea that they needed to do more dives ASAP if they were going to really retain the skills they demonstrated on one or two weekends.
Whilst I do not like the rigidity of modular systems, the problem is that the modular system was not, in point of fact, designed to enhance the quality of the product, it was designed to shorten the course.
I know the courses have gotten shorter and more abbreviated and they have removed essential skills from the class (like buddy breathing). The average student still has no idea what the common scuba failures are and how to deal with them, they can not use a snorkel to save their life (literally). They have almost zero understanding of gas consumption basics and they are way too often uncomfortable in the water.
Agreed, though I don't know that BB is of any real importance anymore except as an exercise.
...Today, using a BCD, I maintain a constant weight on my belt whether I am diving a 3/2mm or a full 7mmm with hooded vest. However, the kit is a bit harder to set up because it is more complicated.
I still adjust my weight for my gear.
In my early days I very rarely went deeper than 100 ft. With no backup (pony) and no octo in case of second stage failure (which I've never had happen), I wanted to be in a depth range I could do a CESA from. My last real CESA, done in my mid to late 50s, was from 75-80 ft which was definitely near the limit for this old geezer but not back in the days when I was a competitive swimmer.
Buddy breathing worked well, IF AND ONLY IF, it was well taught (the old 17 repetitions stuff) and regularly practiced with each and every buddy. It failed miserably when it was "PADI Mastered," never drilled and then attempted with an insta-buddy ... but then the same is true of Auxiliary Regulator Second Stages.
Not only have our kits become more complex and added safety we didn't have back then, I think the gear has become safer. Although I don't ever remember a failure in my personal regs (rental equipment while traveling is a different story), back in the days of J-valves and no SPG deeper diving was not as safe because we didn't have the information (remaining pressure in our tanks) or the backup (octo) we have today.
Again, I am truly interested in how gear has become safer.
I didn't use a BCD until 1989. I was a poor teacher back in the 60s and 70s and my students, who came from wealthy families, often had the latest gear... like those weird Mae Wests. The first time I used a BCD was because I was diving with a Cousteau team and it was required equipment. The stupid thing kept autoinflating, preventing me from submerging. The DM didn't believe me until I showed her. She asked "What can we do?" I said I'll just disconnect it and dive without the darned thing. She said "You can do that?" I replied "Been doing it for 28 years." Of course today I wouldn't dive without a BCD (except perhaps for a little fun).
But I often dive with a BC or BP/W or ABLJ and never put any air in it or use it in any way ... but then I've got big lungs and I adjust my weighting for changes in gear.
...
I consider one's reaction to unexpected situations to be a very critical component of knowing how well prepared a diver is to dive. Unfortunately this is something difficult to train new divers on.
The only difficulty in providing such training is (I am told) persuading a potential diver to take it. The actual training is fairly easy to accomplish.
... If one panics (due to poor training, little diving experience or a tendency to do so topside as well), they could be in serious trouble if their buddy is not attentive and close by.
Buddy system was (is, in my book) an essential backup.
 
Everybody got their trophy while growing up at school. ADD isn't a disease, it's a reprogramming of the mind by current societal practices. Instant gratification, anyone? This has absolutely changed our standard cert practices dramatically.



Once again, Vlad says it in the most economical fashion. Roll that into...



I see that divers are getting vastly easier travel access to much more challenging environments. A whole lot of divers going to the Galapagos at dive #50. In the 1970's we thought Grand Cayman was a big deal. Nowadays, it's pool > lake > South Pacific.

Further....

Perception ≥ Quantitative Relevance x (WOW Factor) :Things going to sh*t in an idyllic environment. The media directs our attention in order to sell advertisements (soap). What is hot and salacious sells the product. "Lost at Sea" stories are fun. The first videotaped shark-feed that goes bad will be the golden ring.

What was the all-encompassing US news story for three weeks (eclipsing the dated story of Chandra Levy?)... up until the morning of 9/11? Shark attacks in Florida. I guess they must have quit.



Dead on.

In the 1960's and into the very early 80's, SCUBA Diving was a lifestyle path. Now it is perceived in the realm of an occasional bungee jump or carnival ride. The wide-spread perception of SCUBA being similar to a "tandem sky-dive" is just baffling to me. The newer crop of divers are largely attracted by the shiny equipment with serial numbers that they can acquire. Watch any LDS. If you can synch it with a laptop, they're buying it.

In the past, after a dive, we would sit at the bar and "de-brief" with friends. Literally talk about how the dive went and what could make it better. The need for taking the digital camera on the first open water dive has skewed that forever. Now, divers sit at the table staring into their computer, looking at downloaded pictures of a Squirrel Fish.

One indicator is the change in the perceived role of "your Divemaster on this year's trip to paradise". Now, they are assumed to be instructor/lifesaver, a far reach from their previous traditional role.

One of the real hooks in long term retention (and building of survival skills) is learning how to find and appreciate the "pretty fish". So many current divers never get past the (initial) McGyver Moment, so they get bored with the process after they have looked at their $800 computer for the 1,000th time. Then the "dive trip" evolved into a "drinking trip".

I got a PM invitation to respond. You guys already said it all, I'm just adding a +1 here.

Ditto here. I stopped at your post and added a "like". I'll still read the rest of the thread and contribute in response to the OP if I have anything to add. Nicely done.
 
Not sure when things really started "changing". I did my NAUI Open Water I in '73 with Frank Hammet. I did a PADI AOW in about '79 with Mark Roman.

I was talking to a PADI DM (2008?) the other day. Some of the things he did we did in NAUI OW-I with Frank. Gear exchange for example.

I did another PADI AOW in 1999 as a refesher. It was NOTHING! I came away with something from PADI '79. In '99 I only learned..deleted. Rant off

I was certified in '73 and completed the NAUI Ass. Instructor Program in '78 that was offered as a 10-week elective within a college that specialized in dive training. I think a guy named Drew Richardson was one of the new instructors (or maybe an instructor candidate?) who was helping with the class. It was pretty rigorous, I think I was the only student to actually pass the NAUI Instructor swim test in my college class.

Didn't get PADI instructor rating until maybe 1990.

By the time I took the PADI Instructor course, dive training was already pretty much a joke. When I took the instructor class, I couldn't believe that some of the instructor candidates were incredibly inept, struggling to do a ditch and don in the pool (something my 9 yr old did on first try with no demonstration).

I think we have seen a steady decline in the ability of recently trained divers, but the decline was much earlier than the mid-90's. The certification level of divers now means almost nothing.

I am amazed at the number of instructors (usually PADI) that are just terrible in the water. Now, when talking with a prospective dive buddy, I don't even ask certification level, I just inquire about experience; certification is meaningless and if somebody brags about being an instructor, I am more likely to decline to dive with them.

On the other hand, when I used to teach the PADI OW class, I was always amazed at how well it was constructed, how the modules and skills and things all worked together to provide students an extremely efficient means to learn diving. The biggest problem was that it was way too short. I strongly encouraged all my students to immediately sign up for AOW or join a club or sometimes, I would even recommend they do baby dives with each other.. but I tried to push the idea that they needed to do more dives ASAP if they were going to really retain the skills they demonstrated on one or two weekends.

I know the courses have gotten shorter and more abbreviated and they have removed essential skills from the class (like buddy breathing). The average student still has no idea what the common scuba failures are and how to deal with them, they can not use a snorkel to save their life (literally). They have almost zero understanding of gas consumption basics and they are way too often uncomfortable in the water.

I really don't see that the mid-90's was a whole lot different than now.
 
Being one of those aging divers who remembers "the good ole days" when divers were tough and real "adventurers" I'm damn glad no one had any underwater video cameras because I'm sure my "perfect" diving form and buoyancy control was not as "perfect" as I like to remember. But my friend and I were both 15 at the time and the only civilians in the class. I guess with that competition I've never felt the need to prove the size of my member.
 
I was asked to participate.

I started diving in the 70's.When I got my Basic certification the class was 12 weeks and consisted of 1 1/2 hour classroom and 1 1/2 hour pool per week/session,36 hours total .The checkout dives consisted of 2 dives done at a quarry in NJ (can't remember the name) and 2 or 3 dives in Long Island sound (Cold,Low Viz,Current,etc.).I can't remember the cost of the class and dives but for some reason it equates,in my mind,to about a weeks salary at the time.Most of the people getting certified were looking to dive locally ,NY-NJ wrecks etc.,so I guess you could say they were "hardcore divers" or planning on being.You had to be a proficient swimmer.

The instructors were also local divers so we had lots of mentoring available which most of us took advantage of.We were not allowed to take the advanced course till we had a certain number of dives ,again can't remember the number,I remember diving through the summer locally then taking the advanced in the winter.The advanced was another 12 weeks same 1/2 classroom 1/2 pool.There was a lot of swimming ,breathing off tanks without a reg. and without a mask circling the pool from one tank to another for a half hour or so ,complete underwater gear exchange with other students,buddy breathing with a snorkel back and forth,rescue scenerios,things to build confidence.The classroom portion consisted of deco theory,remember we were using tables back then,according to the Navy dive manual among other things.

A couple o0f years ago I cam across some of the teaching materials from these courses and threw them out....I wish I had kept them.

The dives for the advanced course were all ocean wreck dives off a NY based boat ,such as the Pinta,Oregon,etc..I don't remember how many dives but in the spring we went out several times.

After completion of the advanced course we were also given YMCA S.L.A.M. (Scuba lifesaving and accident management) certification even tho the Advanced was under PADI..

After the advanced course I had aprox. 72 hours of instruction not including time diving.

Equipment was pretty simple,tank ,hard backpack,regulator, and horse collar preferably with the co2 cartridge removed (if you had money you had a Fenzy,I didn't).Wetsuit ,fins and mask were all pretty much similiar meaning BLACK.

Ok back from my trip down memory lane or "as my memory serves me" which can be questionable.

I think some new divers are becoming very gear dependant and if they don't have a certain type of (fill in the blank)_______ they don't feel comfortable.

To the question that is being asked I can't see much difference between diving in the 90's and now possibly the courses are becoming more diluted and standards are becoming less.
 
I think other posters have identified the points I wish to make but from my own perspective as a professional in a purely recreational diving capacity (long post!):

Diving is, I think we all have to agree, a very safe pastime - and I don't use the word "sport" on purpose. Regardless of agency training, diver fatalities are rare and I think we have to thank the industry overall for this, and probably also the litigious (is that the right word?) nature of the societies to which many of us belong.

Accidents which can be demonstrated to have causal factors in equipment/training/instructors/divemasters, whatever, are inevitably bad for business, and therefore it is incumbent on all equipment manufacturers, dive centres and agencies to adhere to minimum safe levels of practice. Some shops will adhere exactly to the bare minimum, but in my experience, the majority go well above and beyond.

Diving is much more commonplace in 2011 that it was in 1990 - there are, quite literally, millions more people who have experienced diving, even if they didn't take it up full time. The industry as a whole has learned to cope with this because actually, diving in clear blue current-less tropical waters is really quite easy - just like any other "sport" - and as one other recent thread here analogised - I can ride a horse, I learned how to do it in a morning, as long as they give me a mild-mannered mare. I am not going to attempt to ride the wild Mustang. On the other hand, after several years of experience and training, I could ride a motorcycle around a circuit at a speed which meant I would not win, but neither come last in a race.

If somebody wants to learn to float about with the fish without killing either themselves or the coral, great - but it's when these people attempt to dive beyond their limits that the accidents start to occur. A freshly-baked recently certified beginner diver - agency irrelevant - should not be diving the Andrea Doria, or even the SS Thistlegorm, in my location - just like a freshly qualified motorcycle rider or car driver should not be trying to win Le Mans, and I'm going for the mild mannered mare, not the wild mustang.

You can train to deal with all sorts of accidents or eventualities, but even the most highly-trained experts in their high-risk sports die when they push the limits.

Another analogy to draw would be the difference between diving and driving when it comes to "gas management", another constant topic of debate amongst "training experts" on SB. A Formula 1 car racer will have the exact amount and weight of fuel calculated to the microgram in order to make it to the next pit-stop whilst maximising efficiency involving weight versus speed, whereas somebody who is driving the SUV to the shops needs to know that there is some gas in the tank, and when the needle points to the big, red, flashing, E for Empty - you need to stop at the gas station - and the level of conservatism built into the fuel gauge by car manufacturers means that they will read 0 for another 30 miles, because car manufacturers know that a small but annoying minority of people will manage to miss all the warning signs.

So by analogy an advanced trimix wreck diver needs to calculate percentages and pressures to get from one depth to the next over a two hour decompression dive and they must calculate these things accurately because if they get it wrong, the best that they can expect is an extended visit to the chamber, and the worst, death. The average tropical recreational diver needs to know that there is air in their tank, shallow up when it's half empty, then make a safety stop when it's still a quarter full. A small but annoying minority don't pay attention to their gauges and subsequently drown.

The standards have changed because the philosophy behind diving has changed. It's accessible, relatively inexpensive, and a really cool thing to do. When it comes to reliance on dive professionals - sure, this has also changed. When I work as a guide I have - technically - very little responsibility for the safety of the divers in my group - they are all certified divers etc. etc. and should be able to look after themselves and I am there in a purely logistical and supervisory capacity, pointing out cool things. In reality, I am responsible for the safety of every member of that group, both above and below water, for the whole day, because if something goes wrong, the first person they are going to sue is ME. Also I point out cool things.

With regards to buoyancy and trim, I think that many recreational divers (not SB members, of course) regard buoyancy as "a good idea", and trim as something that happens in the hair-dressers. I hear many divers discuss buoyancy techniques in the same way that many of my fellow amateur bikers would discuss body position and the merits of dragging their knees - something they could not yet achieve, and probably never would, but it was a valiant goal they were seeking. After 6 years of trying, they kiss the tarmac with the outer edge of their knee-sliders and bask in the glow of success - but actually most racers don't drag their knees all the time - unless they are using them to support themselves whilst cornering at 180mph and the bike is starting to fall over - just like divers will talk about how they could hover for whole minute without moving up and down, when the secret to hovering is not being motionless, it's the ability to ascend and descend on breath control alone without moving your body.

Even though it's amateur chat, there are so many more amateurs gaining more and more experience that people will learn from these discussions and try to improve their techniques next time. Some of the worst divers I've seen are those trained 30 years ago - some still with horse collars - awful buoyancy, over-weighted, terrible technique and air consumption, but have accumulated thousands of dives over 30 years of safe diving. Who am I to tell them that they don't have perfect trim!?

90% of recreational motorcycle riders can't drag their knee - I mean - did you ever even try this on a Harley? - but the majority of bike riders actually don't do stupid things beyond their limits either. Occasionally, some do, and suffer the consequences.

I think this is the over-riding disclaimer for recreational dive agencies: "You're trained to dive in gin clear water as long as it's not too deep", but if your local dive sites require extra techniques, you really need further training - and hey, buy a course! As I always say - it's a business, I am part of that business, I love it very much, and exactly zero divers have died under my supervision, even as a novice instructor - can you imagine that!?

The recreational dive industry has a half-century of experience now and whilst I do in fact disagree with some recent PADI standards changes, I am disappointed more because they remove some of the theoretical training, rather than performance-based training. It could be argued that this has an effect on safety, but I draw the example that gas theory (such as it was) has pretty much been completely removed from the PADI Nitrox course. I don't like this, but I don't think it affects overall safety when diving with nitrox, because all a recreational diver needs to know is where to put the gauge, how not to break it, how to read a chart or set a computer so it tells them what their MOD is, understand that even thought the limits are conservative, if they should break them, THEY WILL DIE!!!

Again, practically speaking, they don't, even though they lack the extra theoretical knowledge about gas mixtures.

Diver training has for sure been heavily simplified compared what it might have involved 20 or 30 years ago, but also diving itself has become much easier. It's easier to learn, it's easier to find, it doesn't require that you're an expert to do it.

As an sportsbiker, I think it is imperative for all motorcycle riders to learn correct body position, throttle and braking control, but most riders just need to know how to go and stop safely without falling off or hitting other road users. I would love to see all divers have perfect buoyancy control, but the truth is, they don't, and they never will, because that is the preserve of a talented group of people whose numbers diminish the farther up the ladder they rise - but in their aim to achieve higher goals, they will become more talented riders or divers, with an improvement or throttle or buoyancy control being part of the process.

For divers that seek more knowledge and more advanced training, courses and materials are available, even from PADI, and yes - you pay money for them, because it's a business, and yes, we are encouraged to sell the aforementioned further training but hmm - encouraging people to become more experienced and knowledgeable divers - which they have to pay for, rather like advanced motorcycle training - is a bad thing?

People disagree with the philosophies of varying training agencies - PADI takes the bulk of the bashing but read how much stick DIR training takes - for entirely different reasons - but that is my point - people disagree - that's fine, but the world has changed and actually diving is very safe, even if the vast majority of divers are not, metaphorically speaking, capable of dragging their knee.

I think one could sum up the safety aspect of the dive industry something like this: "Accidents are bad for business". People are not going to purchase a product that is unsafe. If recreational dive training was so poor, I would be pulling bodies out of the water on a daily basis, and people would not want to go diving.

Suzuki builds great sports bikes, but they can't control how every rider will ride their bikes. Most, hopefully, will understand their limitations and not push the envelope. Just like diving - most divers can dive safely, if not well. A few have accidents because they are unlucky, or there is culpability from some other party. A few will try things beyond their training and experience and leave tragedy in their wake. And yes, as one other poster identified - there's a lot of Muppets out there... it is a talent show known as "the Human Race".

Safe diving all,

C.
 
Crowly.. long post all right but well worth reading!

I have one question .... will someone please tell me exactly where these "gin clear warm waters with no current and heaps of pretty fish" are? I really want to go there!

I find it interesting how some divers judge others ...
"I took my training from *******" so I am a better diver.
"You dive with ****** equipment so I am a better diver than you"
"I have ***** dives so I am a better diver"
"I have ***** bottom time so I am a better diver"
"I have *** SAC rate so I am a better diver"
"I dive in colder water than you so I am a better diver"
"You are too ****** so you shouldn't be diving"

All we really need to know is ... "Can this diver complete this dive without endangering him/herself, others or the environment?"

It astounds me how many people take it upon themselves to berate other divers in the name of "helping" them become whatever their view of a good diver is! If more people offered advice in a more encouraging, supportive way but only when asked or really necessary for safety I think more new divers would keep active.

Experienced divers are a great assets to the community but condescending attitudes discourage newer divers from tapping in to this valuable source of wisdom. I know of some newer divers who avoid diving with experienced divers because they are embarrassed by their skill level or fed up with the lectures! We all started with limited skills. I learned more from mimicking my more experienced buddies than I did on course but they never made a big deal of my skills.
 
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