Diver out of air? Not really? Cozumel.

[SoccerJeni]

Well, it's nice for you to only be concerned with your own hard earned money paid for a dive, however maybe at some point you'll consider that the other 4-5 divers along with you also paid for the dive with their hard earned money, and they might be concerned with their bottom time and making the most of their dive, even if you aren't.

Cut short enough dives and sooner or later you'll experience getting gentle tips from the other divers your diving with on how to extend your bottom time on the next dive. And if you don't take them you'll likely find yourself with a different group of divers the next day, wondering why you're not diving with the group you were with the day before.

This is why the most basic principle of a dive op separating dive groups by experience is so desired by experienced divers, and why experienced divers seek out dive ops who do so and dive ops like Aldora in Cozumel who put a heavy breather on the tether. Maybe you don't know it, but Aldora is one of the most expensive dive ops on Cozumel, if not the most expensive, and yet they have no shortage of customers willing to pay extra to dive with them. They are regarded as one of the most saftey minded dive ops on Coz and most progressive. They have single handedly saved many a dive vacation because they have slowly and safely openned up diving on the east coast of cozumel, being the only dive op out of over 200 on cozumel that can get a diver out to dive when the west side is closed to all divers.

I understand your points. I am not sure how this place works...is everyone diving in a group? So, you're not going out on your own with a buddy? I was thinking if I was with my buddy only that is the only person who I would affect their bottom time, or that they would affect my bottom time. If everyone has to go as a group that changes it.

I can't help it if I don't like it...that's just the way I feel. I didn't like the way it looked on the video. That's me. I guess if it weren't me tethered onto that DM's Octo, I wouldn't be as concerned. But, I don't want to be with him.

 

[terrylowe]

I want to see the unlisted copyrighted video "Things Go Wrong SCUBA Diving at 100 Feet" for educational purposes only. I will not download the video in whole or in part, I will not share the link with others, I will not post the link or the video in whole or in part on ScubaBoard, or elsewhere, without prior written permission.

BEG you for a "copyrighted" video that you took without written permission? I'll pass......

 

[Idivecoz]

I tried to access the video and was given a message that stated the video was private. Without seeing it, I am at a disadvantage however I have made over 150 dives with several dive operators in Cozumel and know the MO quite well.
Dives are made in groups with the dive master as part of the group. If there is an air hog in the group, the dive master will allow the air hog to use his Octo. The reason for this is because it is a drift dive and if the dive master goes up, the dive is over for the entire group.
I have seen it numerous times and it is standard practice there.

 

[Down2bizDiver]

I tried to access the video and was given a message that stated the video was private. Without seeing it, I am at a disadvantage

Anyone interested in viewing the video can copy the following and paste it into a PM to me:

I want to see the unlisted copyrighted video "Things Go Wrong SCUBA Diving at 100 Feet" for educational purposes only. I will not download the video in whole or in part, I will not share the link with others, I will not post the link or the video in whole or in part on ScubaBoard, or elsewhere, without prior written permission.

In response and in my sole discretion, I may or may not send you the link. There is no fee or charge. The video is 3 minutes 40 seconds in length. If I send you the link then you, and anyone with you, may watch it as many times as you wish.

 

[boulderjohn]

I understand your points. I am not sure how this place works...is everyone diving in a group? So, you're not going out on your own with a buddy? I was thinking if I was with my buddy only that is the only person who I would affect their bottom time, or that they would affect my bottom time. If everyone has to go as a group that changes it.

Cozumel is a fairly unique experience. It has highly complex coral formations and strong currents. Because of the strong currents, drift diving from boats is standard. The boat drops off a group with a divemaster, and a DM is required by law for these dives. Because of the very tall and complex coral formations, carrying a dive flag, as is done in places like South Florida, is not possible--the lines would snag the coral and destroy it. The DM keeps everyone in a group so that the boat can follow their bubbles, to the best of its ability, as they drift with the current. If people were going off on their own with buddy teams, they would be scattered all over the place and the boat could not easily find everyone. There would be people lost at sea on a daily basis.

Some operators will, like the one I described earlier, send an air hog up with a buddy early. In the case I described, we were just sent up on our own to find the boat. It worked. In other cases, the DM will shoot a bag first and send the air hog and the buddy up the line before the rest of the group. In still other cases, everybody goes up when the first air hog hits the target PSI.

What Aldora (and I believe some others) do is different. When the first diver hits a target PSI, with still plenty of air remaining, the DM shares air. This just prolongs the dive. Then, when the second person hits that target, the first diver gets the reg back and the whole group, with everyone still having plenty of air, begins the ascent process.

I am not sure we are not seeing something along those lines here. I saw the original video, but since it is not available to me now, I have to go from memory. I did not see an OOA signal--I only saw a regulator being donated, followed by a leisurely dive. The video ends before the ascent begins, so I never saw if the entire ascent, including safety stop and surfacing, was done with the alternate still donated or if it was returned to the DM when the ascent started.

 

[stadevene]

I missed seeing the video when it was available so I really can't comment on it.

I don't really get the "STAY AWAY FROM COZ!!!1111!" message that was given. I have not had 172362321 trips down there and dove with every op however the op I dove with was nothing but professional and safe. For example one day we had 7 divers planned for the trip and an 8th signed up that day. As a result the dive op said they were bringing another guide onto the boat as they had a max of 7 divers per guide. I have not experienced this elsewhere but thought it was extremely prudent of them, especially on drift dives where a larger group could get spread out. The briefings were complete, full explanation of what we'd see, the dive plan, and full explanation of signals. In fact the other guide with the 2nd group of 4 pretty much quizzed his divers after his briefing. I've felt much less "informed" on dives in other locations. I never observed the sharing of air and it wasn't part of the briefing, perhaps this dive up didn't follow the practice. Coz wouldn't be on my "stay away" list that's for sure.

 

[Down2bizDiver]

I never saw if the entire ascent, including safety stop and surfacing, was done with the alternate still donated or if it was returned to the DM when the ascent started.

The distressed diver was back on his own tank at the safety stop. I did not observe the moment when he went back on his own tank but it was very late in the dive.

 

[sydney-diver]

Are you sure he signaled OOA?

Some Cozumel operators will share air with divers who are going through their air faster than the others in the group. In such a situation, the first diver in the group to hit a target PSI--nowhere near OOA--will share air with the DM for a while. When the second diver hits that target PSI, the first diver gives back the donated regulator and goes back to his or her own regulator as they begin the ascent process. At no time in this process is anyone close to OOA.

Seen that plenty of times, in Bora Bora one of the guides shared air to get one diver back to the anchor chain, then put her back on her own air for the safety stop. The dive had already been turned so I suspect it was as more trying to avoid divers surfacing away from the boat than not wanting to shorten the dive as it was pretty much over at that stage.

 

[Down2bizDiver]

I missed seeing the video when it was available so I really can't comment on it.

See post #84 above if you would like to view the video.

Here is some additional information related to the dive depicted in the video:

The prior day the dive ops boat broke down, one of 2 motors quit, and we never made it to the intended dive site and instead of getting back in time for lunch we got back in time for dinner. The morning of the dive depicted, 2 of the dive ops boats were tied up at the usual spot when a Marine Police officer appeared and started checking the paperwork of all the boats at the dock. This dive op had no paperwork, for either boat. Soon, 2 backup officers appeared. Serious discussion, pleading, frantic phone calls by the crew. The owner of the boats appears. After animated discussion with the officers she retreats to her car and begins crying and pounding the steering wheel. Best I can figure, the boats were impounded. They took us in a couple of taxis to another location where both boat loads were combined onto one larger boat. Two hours after the original scheduled departure time we are finally on the way to the dive site. The DMs begin the usual preparations and ask "how much weight do you need" only to discover there are no weights on the boat necessitating more frantic cell phone calls and a U turn back to the dock. Weights now onboard we head out again. Then one of the DMs realizes he has no mask and no fins. We wait offshore while the boat with only 1 good motor brings the gear.

Finally, we get in the water. My group of 4 (plus DM) goes to 120 feet so that AOW student diver can do his skill test. Video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAKvFiAYpUI Soon, the events depicted in the "things go wrong" video begin.

I'm sure you're thinking that the second dive must have gone more smoothly, but sadly, no. They made us gear up and sit on the gunwale for a good 12 - 15 minutes in the blazing sun (I sunburn very easily; I hated it!) before deciding this is the spot to get wet. Into the water we go, down to the bottom but less than 2 minutes into the dive the DM frantically motions for us to immediately return to the surface, which we did, and back onto the boat ... said the current was too strong for the novice divers in the second group ... another 10 - 12 minutes sitting geared up in the blazing sun to a different dive spot ... things were OK there for the first 35 - 40 minutes when the visibility became dramatically reduced and the groups scattered so up to the surface we went ... we floated in the water for at least 15 minutes before the boat came to get us ... another dive boat came by and asked if we were in distress and if we wanted to board his boat but our DM said no. Now after 3 p.m. Since 7 a.m. breakfast all I had to eat was one banana and a piece of watermelon! Finally back to the harbor and a taxi ride to the dive shop in time for dinner.

 

[boulderjohn]

The distressed diver was back on his own tank at the safety stop. I did not observe the moment when he went back on his own tank but it was very late in the dive.

In other words, it was never an OOA situation. The diver had enough air to complete at least part of the ascent, the safety stop, and the return to the boat. I assume you don't know how much air he had left when he got on the boat.

This operator, then, uses the method, common to a number of operators, of extending the dive by giving an air hog some assistance in the middle of the dive, after which the regulator is returned to the diver for a normal ascent.

Would it be a fair summary, then, to say that you posted this video originally to object to this practice? Is this why you are telling people not to got to Cozumel? If so, why were you originally suggesting that this was an OOA situation when you knew the diver was never OOA?