Diver missing at Cove 2, West Seattle

[Divewolf]

43 degrees F ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

TY Bob!

 

[openmindOW]

. . . can easily be trained out of even the worst affected ... but the longer one goes without a mask on ... or with a flooded mask ... the harder it becomes to breathe. It literally feels like your regulator is breathing water. It's not ... it's just your brain messing with you ... but that's what it feels like.

This question may be worthy of a separate thread. Would it be advisable for an agency to develop exercises to train student divers to deal with this siuation?

 

[mcguiver]

After conversations with divers involved with the recovery and second hand related accounts from the buddy/student of the victim I have been able to fill in a few more blanks. (and generate a few more) Everything here is what has been related to me and is second hand information so take it for what it is.

I guess my first post on scubaboard will be to A&I. I’ve been a long time reader of this sub-forum and now I find myself really needing its rational analysis of an accident that I can’t stop thinking about.
I know the diver in question. Not personally. But we worked in the same field and were the same age. I’m surprised I never ran into him while diving. I’ve been racking my brain non-stop trying to understand why this happened and I can’t come up with something that makes sense

So I would like to review what we know and maybe a discussion will ensue of what might have happened and what we can learn from it.

From the variety of news accounts, we know that:

-This was an AOW adventure deep dive class
Reportedly run through a shop in Seattle, I have no independent corroboration so
I don't want to post their name but if true and given the fact they were sued over
a similar situation three years ago I can understand their desire for secrecy.

-There was one instructor and 3 student diver
The victim, Tareq Saade had around 50 dives, almost exclusively in warm water, Apparently Tariq and one of the other students had just completed their dry suit adventure dives shortly before the incident. The student who witnessed Tareq's rush toward the surface and made (some sort of effort to assist) reportedly had around 6 dives total.
-After reaching approximately 90-100fsw, the instructor and students turned around to return to shore.
The class descended to the area where the log bundles are, at around 120'
-At approximately 80-70fsw during the return, something happened that led the diver to bolt to the surface.
Reportedly the victim and the second student (who witnessed the incident) had been supplied with "70-something cubic foot tanks" and were running low on air. They signaled to the instructor their air situation and the instructor led them "up". The instructor was in front of at least the victim and the second student and led them some distance "but it didn't get any shallower" This small piece of information allowed the diver who initially located the body to theorize that the instructor had led the students parallel to shore rather than toward the shore. With this theory the recovery diver was able to locate the body at a depth of around 130 feet in the area between the log piles and the I beams after a very short search. This re-enforces the dive buddy/students story that the incident took place at depth while the group was swimming parallel to shore toward the I beams, not in 70' while ascending along the bottom as the instructor reported.
The dive buddy and the victim were swimming to keep up with the instructor and were running low on gas when the buddy saw the victim "ascending in a cloud of bubbles" she then made (some sort of attempt) to catch him before returning to the bottom and getting the instructors attention. I am unclear on the details that followed but it seems that at that point the instructor led the two remaining students to the surface along the slope and raised the alarm.
-His buddy attempted to follow but realized she was ascending too quickly and stopped at around 30fsw.
-The diver in question had 50+ dives of experience and was relatively young(28 or 29).
-Visibility was high for the Puget Sound, around 25 feet.

For those of you unfamiliar with the area and dive site:
-Cove 2 at Seacrest Park is a popular dive site with very little current exposure. I did the exact same adventure deep dive at Cove 2 for my AOW. You will typically swim out to a buoy and drop down to about 40fsw. The floor slopes rather gradually down to ~100fsw to the I-beams. Travel time is minimal and an adventure deep dive would only spend a most 1 or 2 minutes before turning around.

The three scenarios I can think off are:
-Medical event
-Narcosis induced panic
-Out of air/equipment failure

A medical event is always a possibility. However, the fact that he was young leads me to think a cardiac event is unlikely. I know that epileptic seizures are preceded by a rush of fear. A medical event somehow seems like something of low probability.

I don’t know a lot about narcosis, but I know it can hit people below 100fsw. I know nothing of “dark narc” to speculate if it’s even a possibility at 90-80fsw
I would theorize the instructors reported actions during the dive would be symptomatic of the effects of narcosis. Especially at the reported depths of 120+FSW.
Out of air or equipment failure would be another possibility. Although none of the accounts relayed by the authorities to the news suggest equipment issues. What troubles me is, even in a worst case scenario (sudden OOA, free-flowing reg, etc), I feel like someone with 50+ dives would simply swim to one of the three other divers and take their regulator and breathe off of that.
The victim's buddy's report of seeing the victim ascending rapidly in a cloud of bubbles would indicate to me a panic response to some circumstance. Though the victim did have around fifty dives he had very little experience in cold water, and almost no experience with cold water equipment like the drysuit.
Am I off on this? Is that a possible lesson? That panic can incapacitate you no matter what your experience level? And what can we do as divers to avoid panic? I imagine drilling emergency scenarios as often as possible would be one step.

I know a lot more detail needs to come out of this. And maybe we won’t get any more detail. Maybe there was a medical event. But given all the circumstances, the good visibility, the calm water, the presence of multiple buddies, the experience level, his age … I just can’t rationally understand why this happened. Your thoughtful analysis would be welcome.

As an aside: To the divers who helped recover the diver and to those who responded at the time of the accident. Thank you. I’m proud to be part of such an awesome dive community. The diver’s buddy also deserves kudos for doing her best to aid her fellow buddy but recognizing that if she kept following, she could have become a victim as well.
​The diver who was injured during the recovery is doing well, her incident was due to a regulator failure (massive freeflow) that resulted in a rapid ascent and subsequent DCS. She was treated in the chamber and is looking forward to getting back in the water. The victims buddy is in need of support, it is a terrible thing to be with someone who is killed and she should know that no matter what she is not to blame. Unfortunately the dive shop that the victim and the buddy were training through is reportedly urging her to not reveal her account of what happened (as it directly contradicts the instructors account in many key areas) for "her protection" making her feel she would be liable for the death of her buddy.

As with many of you, I have been working to fill in all the missing pieces and after talking with many of the people directly involved I believe I have filled in a few of them but not all. I will say I am much more inclined to trust the accounts of those independent witnesses I have talked to over the official report put forth by the instructor. Given that companies history of being sued over the negligent death of a student they are very well versed in covering their butts in this type of situation.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Aaron, the only part of what you've posted above that I would question are the depths. While they are significant in that part of the cove, they are not quite as deep as what's posted. Tidal height at the time of the accident on the day of the accident was about a +8 ... that would put the depth at Olive's Den at just over 100 feet, and the end of those logs about 8 feet deeper. Reports coming from the person who initially found the body was that it was somewhat to the southeast of Olive's Den ... toward the I-beams ... which would put it at just slightly over 100 feet. And we can't be sure that where the body was found accurately represents the depth of the dive ... I've got no reliable information on the dive profile to date.

I've conducted a lot of deep dives at Cove 2 over the years ... particularly in that area. It's easy to get to 110 ... even 115 on a high tide ... but it flattens out after that. You can hit 120 if you go out past the scooter line ... but it's quite a ways out to hit 130. I'd be hard pressed to believe an AOW dive instructor would willingly go to that much effort to hit that depth ... I certainly hope not.

The person who found Tareq confirmed that his cylinder was empty. This could've happened a number of ways, including free-flow ... the water is as cold as it gets right now, and a free-flow could easily be induced by a stressed diver overbreathing his reg ... particularly a rental unit that may not be optimally tuned. But she also said he was using a small cylinder ... she thought it was a steel 72. Perhaps my feelings on taking an inexperienced diver that deep on that tank are obvious ... if not, read my gas management article.

Did Tareq run himself out of gas? I don't know ... the likelihood is pretty high under those conditions, with a new drysuit user in cold water. The effects of narcosis and possibly CO2 buildup could have significantly increased his consumption rate. But indisputably being at that depth on that cylinder wasn't a good idea.

Besides the possible reasons already mentioend, CO2 buildup could have induced a bolt response in a diver who didn't know how to handle it ... and that's very easy to do at that depth, particularly in a relatively inexperienced diver who is likely to be using higher-than-normal exertion to maintain his position in the water.

The more I learn about this accident, the more convinced I am that it was completely preventable ... and possibly not good judgment on the part of the person conducting the class. But that is based on my own standards of what constitutes good judgment, and I will not speculate on what the judgment of this particular instructor might be. I will say that I would not take a student to that place with as little experience as Tareq had ... and under no circumstance with that small of a cylinder.

I will caution anyone who is contemplating such a dive that even with an instructor ... in a class ... "trust me" dives are not a good idea. You don't know what you don't know ... but if you're new at something like cold water diving, or using a drysuit, you should know that going deep just isn't a good idea. Get familiar with the gear and environment first. If you've got 50 dives ... even in a different environment ... you should have a general idea what your air consumption rate is. And as a new diver, you should know that going deep on a small tank isn't a very good idea ... no matter how badly you want to. You've been taught at least the concept of surfacing with a reserve ... and why it matters.

Don't just blindly, trustingly, follow someone else deep ... not even an instructor. If there's something about the dive that seems wrong, it is wrong ... if for no reason other than the fact that it'll take your mind off what you're supposed to be paying attention to. Toss in some narcosis and an elevated CO2 level and you're cutting your safety margins too thin.

Listen to that little voice inside your head that might be questioning whether or not this is a good idea ... the more I learn about this accident, the more I'm concluding that in this case it wasn't ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[cfrensley]

I've reported this post and asked that it be removed. You are presenting factually false information and furthermore clearly have an agenda of damaging the people involved in this incident. Whoever you are please introduce yourself with your real name and explain your agenda. Are you running a competing business inthe Seattle area? Let me know where the lawyer's letter needs to be sent, please.

 

[cfrensley]

MGQUIVER:

Please pist with your real name. You have made more than one factually false and/or misleading post here about this terrible incident (eg the shop in question did not take anyone to 120 ft or take anyone deep with a 70 cft tank) and you clearly have an agenda. Please identify yourself.Are you running a competing business in the area? What is the source of your agenda?

 

[Thalassamania]

I've reported this post and asked that it be removed. You are presenting factually false information and furthermore clearly have an agenda of damaging the people involved in this incident. Whoever you are please introduce yourself with your real name and explain your agenda. Are you running a competing business inthe Seattle area? Let me know where the lawyer's letter needs to be sent, please.

MGQUIVER:

Please pist with your real name. You have made more than one factually false and/or misleading post here about this terrible incident (eg the shop in question did not take anyone to 120 ft or take anyone deep with a 70 cft tank) and you clearly have an agenda. Please identify yourself.Are you running a competing business in the area? What is the source of your agenda?

If you have information that argues against what was posted by others, rather than complain you should post it yourself. Your pose of outrage, accusations, and veiled legal threats are neither convincing nor particularly becoming.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

This question may be worthy of a separate thread. Would it be advisable for an agency to develop exercises to train student divers to deal with this siuation?

These exercises already exist ... I learned them from another instructor who's been using them for years.

The problem with looking to the agencies for a solution is that the "one-size-fits-all" approach is fundamentally flawed. The agenciies ... the majority of them anyway ... tailor their curriculum to the largest market, which is the tropical diver. That market doesn't need solutions to problems that exist primarily ... or completely ... in cold water.

Instead, this is exactly the sort of situation that one learns by experiencing it ... which also points to the fundamental inadequacy of instructors who, six months ago, were just learning how to dive. They cannot teach what they don't know ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

MGQUIVER:

Please pist with your real name. You have made more than one factually false and/or misleading post here about this terrible incident (eg the shop in question did not take anyone to 120 ft or take anyone deep with a 70 cft tank) and you clearly have an agenda. Please identify yourself.Are you running a competing business in the area? What is the source of your agenda?

I know who McGuiver is, and who he works for. I don't believe he has any agenda other than getting information out to the public. He and I don't always agree on things, but I have no reason to believe he has any ulterior motive for posting the information he did.

You're local ... if you have information that conflicts with what he's said, or that can shed more light on what happened, please post it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[redacted]

I've reported this post and asked that it be removed. You are presenting factually false information and furthermore clearly have an agenda of damaging the people involved in this incident. Whoever you are please introduce yourself with your real name and explain your agenda. Are you running a competing business inthe Seattle area? Let me know where the lawyer's letter needs to be sent, please.

Perhaps you, or another member of your dive club, or maybe the club sponsor, could provide more correct information.