The video at 244 above is pretty scary. When does a "swim through" become a cave? I don't mind a little swim through with wide openings and where I can see the daylight at the other side. I think of it as passing under a bridge. But that video was an enclosed environment. If the bottom gets churned up, I'm not sure you'd see the way out. The DM sure can't see you if you get into trouble and your buddy may not be able to see you either if she is ahead of you. I would prefer not to go through there and I would be upset if a DM asked me if Iwant to do a "swim through" and took me in there.
Diver lost 15 Jan 2013 Cozumel
- Thread starter MMM
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halocline
Contributor
Interesting, I watched the same video and thought that it looked like a very easy swim through with lots of natural light and several exit points. Your perception is as valid as mine, it goes to show you how individual this issue is. But, a 'cave' as defined by consensus within the cave diving agencies has no natural light, meaning if you lose light you cannot see the direction to the exit at all, and/or a specific distance of combined depth and length to the exit, around 130-150 ft (I think) depending on the agency.
I think there are two fairly important, somewhat personal issues for recreational divers doing swim throughs like the one in the video. One, probably most important, is whether or not the diver is comfortable and confident in the swim through. Anxiety in a situation like that is not good...the other is, who are you in there with? Trusted buddies that could help diffuse a problem like an entanglement or a free flow? Or unknown divers that might start a real problem simply by freaking out, if for example another diver kicked off their mask by mistake.
Another thing to consider is, of course, the buoyancy control and swimming/finning ability of the people in the swim through. This has environmental implications too. And then there's the idea of gear configuration. It would generally suck to have to share air on a 30" hose in a swim through. Another example of the advantages of the recreational long hose.
I don't think that swim through (depending on depth, but it looked from the light to be pretty shallow) is anything like technical diving, but it definitely could be considered 'advanced' whatever that means. It does really come back to each diver knowing his/her own limits and taking responsibility for their dive decisions.
vondo
Contributor
I'm totally lost on what this argument is, but since my short comment (including the words "backseat divers") appears to have started it, let me be more clear.
While we would all like to know what happened and her buddy(s) and the DM from the group probably know more than anyone, it's unrealistic to expect that all involved are going to come here to involve us in a detailed discussion of what her dive experience was, what was said re: private DMs before this trip, what the dive plan was, and what caused the separation and/or accident. There are lots of reasons for this but
1) These people just lost their sister a week ago. They have lots of feelings to sort through, memorial arrangements to possibly consider, etc. If you were in this position would your first or even 100th thought be "I've got to get on Scubaboard and let them know what happened!" That was the crux of my comment.
2) Most divers are not even aware of Scubaboard. Ok, this woman's family is now, I presume because we've had other people show up who are apparently related to the missing woman.
3) There may or may not be legal issues to sort through. Unless it is known that there are not, the first rule of prudence is "don't comment". (18 months ago I was involved in a much less serious incident which had a happier outcome. To this day *none* of the ten of us involved have publicly commented because the incident is still not resolved.)
Thanks Vondo. However, there were seven or more divers on that dive and you would think that at least we would be able to find out which of the three currently known scenarios implicated in her disappearance is correct.
If we did, that helps focus the discussion. On the other hand, you may consider it better to discuss all three scenarios and how new divers should respond and better yet...get training/experience beforehand to be able to handle it properly. So with that, I will repeat what I believe are the three scenarios:
1) She got ahead of the group and was lost before/during the group surfacing.
2) A "whirlpool"
3) She and her two brothers were separated from the DM led group in a swim through and she became separated from her brothers....never to be seen again.
---------- Post added January 22nd, 2013 at 08:35 AM ----------
You should let the DM know pre-dive that you may forego some swim throughs. If you are comfortable going over the group or swimming around the coral to another spot to await their exit, you are fine. I often spend the time looking for my favorite fish or make a game out of it and try to guess where they will come out and be waiting there.
If we did, that helps focus the discussion. On the other hand, you may consider it better to discuss all three scenarios and how new divers should respond and better yet...get training/experience beforehand to be able to handle it properly. So with that, I will repeat what I believe are the three scenarios:
1) She got ahead of the group and was lost before/during the group surfacing.
2) A "whirlpool"
3) She and her two brothers were separated from the DM led group in a swim through and she became separated from her brothers....never to be seen again.
---------- Post added January 22nd, 2013 at 08:35 AM ----------
You should let the DM know pre-dive that you may forego some swim throughs. If you are comfortable going over the group or swimming around the coral to another spot to await their exit, you are fine. I often spend the time looking for my favorite fish or make a game out of it and try to guess where they will come out and be waiting there.
Perhaps I misread recent posts. There seem to be two parallel considerations in this thread, that of leading divers into restricted spaces and what I had thought were issues of a group ascending in a strong current. I'll butt out.
And yes, I do have quite a lot of experience of drift diving and of accompanying groups in strong currents.
diver 85
Contributor
My thoughts also---kinda 'standard' for CZ, thought everyone did those every time they visited...That's why I was asking...
Has there been any futher word on Ms. Tamara?
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