Diver Indicted in 2003 GBR mishap

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I believe the theory is that he turned her gas off while in a bear hug until she died, then turned it back on. I may not be remembering correctly, so others may chime in with more accurate info, but I think her tank was on and the reg in her mouth when found, yet the official cause of death was drowning. I don't know if they found sea water in her lungs or gas in her blood.

It raises an interesting issue of how long does it take to die when your air is turned off. It takes only a few minutes to suffer brain injury, but a lot longer period of hypoxia is needed to cause cardiac arrest. As a former neurosurgeon who has pronounced many people "brain dead" and turned off their respirator, I have seen a body maintain a normal heart rate, pulse, even reasonable blood pressure for fifteen minutes, even longer, with no ventilation at all. Thus, turning off the tank briefly and turning it back on again is not a certain way to murder someone, only injure them.

Simply turning someone's air off, waiting for them to pass out, then turning it back on is no guarantee that the person, particularly a young healthy person, will die (of course, a perpetrator may not know that).

A defense attorney should point out that this is somewhat of a far-fetched theory of her death. It again raises the issue that an accident may have been planned, but not necessarily a murder.
 
Shakeybrainsurgeon,

Would that information you gave regarding simply turning off someone's air be affected at all by squeezing her very tightly? Couldn't the bear hug have accelated the process of asphyxiation?

Also, don't forget that there was a credible eyewitness (a Doctor from another boat) to the bear hug and the subsequent dropping of her lifeless body by Gabe, so it's not simply a far-fetched theory...
 
I don't think a bear hug makes a difference. Underwater, no air is no air. My only point was that turning off the air briefly (say, a few minutes), would likely harm a person neurologically but may not kill them if the air is turned back on. The medulla is much more resistant to hypoxia than the cerebral cortex, so even a brain injured person might begin breathing again once airflow is restored, even after a few minutes. Moreover, the heart (especially a young one) can survive for a long time after total lack of ventilation based on the reservoir of oxygen dissolved in the blood.

If he held her, air off, for fifteen minutes, a combination of hypoxia and acidosis would likely be lethal, but that seems a long time to be underwater grasping a struggling person without drawing suspicion from other divers (unless he had her in a distant locale, which has been suggested). This period of time might also be visible on his computer profile.

He may have meant only to have her pass out (the "I am a hero" scenario), or he did turn her air off briefly to kill her and, in this case, that was enough.

I don't think it is farfetched that he could have done it, I just think that, as a way to kill someone underwater, it seems a bit too elegant. Why not, after he shut off her air transiently, pull her reg out of her mouth ? Why not just pull the reg out, leave the air on and hold onto to her? In the latter case, even if seen, it would look like a panic situation with two people fighting over a reg and arouse no suspicion. Why risk someone see you turn the air off?
 
Other than the fact that Tina died of drowning, is there any actual evidence that he turned her air off? A theory is fine, but all the theories in the world add up to nothing, unless there is some substance to them.

Of course, I'm curious how someone could drown if the regulator is in their mouth and there is air in their tank. Now, that could suggest that Gabe put the regulator into Tina's mouth after she ingested water. But, the question remains: Did he take it out first? How do we get an answer to that question? That is dependent on what he says or has said. For example, if he says he put the regulator into her mouth, that is not inconsistent with her having rejected it, ingested water and him coming to her aid. However, if he denies having put the regulator into her mouth, there is a lose end that could lead one to think he pulled the regulator out of her mouth first.

Strange. Very strange.
 
I'd like to know more about the doctor also and what was witnessed. This bear hug description is not enough on the face to understand what is meant by this. Perhaps the doc has indeed seen something of relevance. Perhaps not.

Cheers!
 
I'd like to know more about the doctor also and what was witnessed. This bear hug description is not enough on the face to understand what is meant by this. Perhaps the doc has indeed seen something of relevance. Perhaps not.

Cheers!

I think what is significant is that he saw the "bear hug" then he saw the person (Gabe) let go and Tina drift down to the bottom as Gabe swam off. I remember reading that he and his wife questioned Gabe's behaviour on the boat after the event. They are the ones who spoke to Tina's parents and it seems that initiated a lot of questions from her parents on what really happened.

At first I wondered why the Doc didn't do anything himself. He said he was on course and his instructor "told him to stay put" and that is when he saw another diver rushing to Tina and bringing her up.
 
Bowlofpetunias, it was not the doctor or his wife who questioned Gabe on the boat after the accident. The doctor was on the OTHER boat.

The people who immediately questioned Gabe and told him it didn't make sense were 2 "seasoned" divers on Gabe's own boat and they were also the one's who told Tina's parents of their suspicion and were interviewed by the police.

That info is in this thread and the other documents thread written and on video.
 
Bowlofpetunias, it was not the doctor or his wife who questioned Gabe on the boat after the accident. The doctor was on the OTHER boat.

The people who immediately questioned Gabe and told him it didn't make sense were 2 "seasoned" divers on Gabe's own boat and they were also the one's who told Tina's parents of their suspicion and were interviewed by the police.

That info is in this thread and the other documents thread written and on video.

Thanks for correcting me on that. I have read this entire thread and the other one and read and watched all the links.... after a while it can blend together a bit and I am not prepared to reread the whole thing again:blinking:
 
Simply turning someone's air off, waiting for them to pass out, then turning it back on is no guarantee that the person, particularly a young healthy person, will die (of course, a perpetrator may not know that).

Thank you, ShakeyBrainSurgeonm, for your contributions here.

Doctor, I have three questions for you.

First, let's assume that a diver's air were shut-off and that this diver were held down (presumably by another diver). Wouldn't the diver eventually lose consciousness?

Second, under that hypothetical, approximately how long would it take for the diver to lose consciousness?

Third, if the diver were to pass-out while under water, then couldn't that unconscious diver die due to aspiration of water into the lungs?

Thank you, Doctor.
 
Thank you, ShakeyBrainSurgeonm, for your contributions here.

Doctor, I have three questions for you.

First, let's assume that a diver's air were shut-off and that this diver were held down (presumably by another diver). Wouldn't the diver eventually lose consciousness?

Second, under that hypothetical, approximately how long would it take for the diver to lose consciousness?

Third, if the diver were to pass-out while under water, then couldn't that unconscious diver die due to aspiration of water into the lungs?

Thank you, Doctor.

This all varies according to the individual, but it might take several minutes to pass out, five to ten minutes to suffer irreversible brain injury and ten minutes or longer to actually suffer cardiac arrest. Fit, trained people can hold their breaths for several minutes without passing out; a struggling, panicked amateur will likely pass out much sooner. In young people with normal hearts, cardiac arrest more likely arises from the acidosis from carbon dioxide retention and not from the hypoxia itself. The heart is much better at extracting oxygen, and more resilient, then the brain.

The presence of water in the lungs requires that the regulator be out of the mouth while the person is still taking breaths, and that no laryngospasm occurs. See the excellent book A Perfect Storm, which has a rather grim and clinical chapter on the physiology of drowning. Some people can drown without scuba gear and still have very little water in their lungs.

To summarize my point: it isn't so easy to kill a young person from hypoxia in a brief time span. Injure them yes, kill them no. But the issue, I guess, isn't what will happen, but what the perpetrator thinks will happen.

For a crime, the law requires an action be taken with criminal intent for a crime to be committed; the nature of the intent determines the criminal liability of the act. For example, a woman bakes her new boyfriend a cake made with peanut oil. The man is allergic to peanuts, eats it and goes into shock, eventually dying. The prosecution must prove she knew of his allergy; if she didn't, no crime has taken place, even though her actions lead directly to his death. The act was there, but the intent lacking.

If evidence is found that she knew he was allergic, she might claim that she only intended to make him ill because she was mad at him. If this is true, she is guilty of manslaughter. However, if it can be proven that she knew of prior episodes which were almost fatal to him, it can be argued that she intended to kill him with premeditation. Thus, the same act could be a) an innocent mistake; b) five to ten years in prison; or c) life in prison or even a death penalty, depending upon the mental intent of the person committing the act and their knowledge of the consequences of that act.

Let's assume a person is seen turning off someone's tank underwater, then a struggle ensues, the person sinks to the bottom and the perpetrator swims away "to get help". This could be horseplay, a cruel trick; it might be two misguided numbskulls practicing some sort of air-sharing skills underwater; it might be murder. It all depends on what the perpetrator intended when shutting off the air, and how much that person knew about the consequences of his actions. In this case, the diver's knowledge, training and experience would work against him.

An experienced and highly trained diver would never turn off the air of his buddy in this scenario either as a prank or as a skills test. That leaves intentional injury as the only rationale. To a lay jury, my academic arguments about how long it would take to die would be meaningless. To a non-diving, non-expert, someone shutting off my tank underwater wants to kill me, Period.

In this case, no one actually saw him turn the tank off, so what action he may or may not have taken is speculative. Consequently, it is going to hard to prove that he had formed an intent to kill her.

This case is, as I have pointed out earlier, identical to several recent cases where newlywed husbands took their wives on hiking/rock-climbing excusions for which the women were ill-prepared. The wives fall to their deaths; in those cases, massive amounts of circumstantial evidence existed (the husbands took out large insurance policies, for example; in one case, the husband took his wife on a canoe trip and allegedly tried to drown her the day before she fell to her death, but she managed to survive that day, only to die the next). Without direct evidence of some physical act by the husband leading to the lethal falls, these men all walked away with not guilty verdicts.

In the case of Scott Peterson, no one saw him murder his wife, either. In that case, however, it was clear she was murdered. No one winds up bound in tape and floating in the ocean accidentally. In this case, on the other hand, like the cases of the hiking falls, the possibility of an accidental death is there. This possibility, plus the lack of any eyewitness evidence of an actual act leading to her death, leads me to believe that he would not likely be convicted.

The family's recourse here is a civil suit to bankrupt him. That would not require either intent to kill or a guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. One would simply have to prove that he was negligent in taking his wife on this trip and he failed to provide a reasonable amount of effort to rescue her. That should be easy.
 
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