Diver Dies in Long Sault

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The diving community is seldom told anything of value. Rarely do they have some one who knows diving examine the accident other than the people who are involved for the purpose of protecting the interests of the shop, instructor and the certification agency.

IMO, Whenever there is a fatality in training that doesn't involve a heart attack or something they need to take a real good look at what happened.

I guess we won't know for a couple of years until the DAN report for this year is released but it sure seems like we are reading about more and more accidents. I really think the agencies should stop ignoring it and get a little proactive.

Of course, though, you realize that if they did, it would be the same as a public admission that they were doing something wrong. That might open a real can of worms. My guess is that they will continue to portray diving as being as safe as bowling.
 
What constitutes proper training? If it is the standards put forth by almost all of the training agencies then who is to blame when a shop trains within these standards? I find it interesting to read what the experts have to say when an incident occurs, and even more interesting to see just how many experts there suddenly are.
 
I think that the Government should get involved with the training aspect (That is probably the only time you will here me ask for more Gov't oversight). If they set the standards, and then they ultimately certify the Instructors. They get the PADI, NAUI, ACUC, etc Instructor cert then have to perform their knowledge and be observed training students before they are 'legal' to train students. Kinda of like a BAR exam lawyers do, and a bi- annual recert.

Knowledge standards for each level of cert (OW, ADV OW, DM, etc) should be the same across the board and should not be the 'bare minimum'.


Sorry for the diatribe but thats the way I see it.

Dale S
 
Kevin Ripley once bubbled...
What constitutes proper training? If it is the standards put forth by almost all of the training agencies then who is to blame when a shop trains within these standards? I find it interesting to read what the experts have to say when an incident occurs, and even more interesting to see just how many experts there suddenly are.
Agency standards are MINIMUM standards. When the minimum standards are not met negligence comes into play. It will be up to the investigator to decide if there was Criminal Negligence.
 
What investigator?
 
Tom R once bubbled...
Are we sure that he was trained properly in the first place, maybe we should start there, and work forward. Lets look at the big picture here not just the incident.

Sarcasm?
If I understood the accident happened during training. I'd sat something was wrong.
Is anyone here a instructor trainer? or a instructor evaluator? cause it sure sounds like it

Tom

I'm not an IT but I am an instructor and I know the kind of crap I see all the time. Incedents like this don't surprise me even a little bit.

BTW, I know an IT who needs to kneel down to use a compass. He teaches the fastest most inadequate classes I have ever seen.
 
This incident has certainly been the water cooler talk this past week. I have heard alot of the older divers saying this one can't be swept under the table as most are. I'm hearing divers saying it could have been avoided as I suppose most accidents can be.
I have friends who are former instructors that have sent e-mails and have called both the coroner's office and the offices of Padi encouraging them to get to the bottom of this one and make there findings very public not hidden in the back pages of a newapaper where you might find it.
I as others who have non diving spouses are really on edge and asking many questions I can't answer, it makes it tough when you are going out to do a dive.
 
GTADiver once bubbled...

This is truly a tragedy that need not have happened. I truly hope that a Coronor's inquest is called and that the diving community can learn from the incident and possibly the family can get some closure. Kanata Diving Supply will hopefully review its interpretation of their PADI standards with this being the second fatality they have had on an advanced course.


What you have just spouted here I find this the most insidious form of slander possible. One does not interpret standards you teach to them or exceed them. What possible good is there in mentioning a second past fatality with out mentioning what the situation was or what the out come of the investigation was? Do you in fact know what happened or are you a person with an ax to grind and are using a horrible tragedy to take a pot shot at anotherwise outstanding store?

I contend that the student was a victim of the training agency in question. He was fresh off of his OW course with no interviening dives. I lay most of the blame here on the instructor who signed the original 'C' card and the agency whose framework is so leinient as to allow him/her to sign it. There is no way in the world that a student such as this could disguise his discomfort in the the water thoughout a whole OW without raising some flag in the mind of the original instructor.

Next comes a training cirriculum that allows and encourages students to take exactly this route. This is largely a financial issue as dive shops make nothing on the OW course but they can charge the same bucks or more for a two day AOW plus the extra gear sales that advanced students need. A store can finally make some coin. If KDS did not take this student then he would have found someone else to do it in fairly short order. This student, by the way way, came to KDS straight off off is OW from another Ottawa store whom unlike you, GTAdiver, I will out of courtesy not name. I think it was only KDS's unfortunate luck to be the next store in the area to be teaching a AOW.

The last but not least victim is the instructor in question. Once again hamstrung by the training agency when presented by the 'C' card that allowed the student to be on the course, the instructor has to assume that the student has the knowledge, skill and experience that the card represents or at least the minimum skill set. I do not think the the student possessed either in this case. I am not letting the instructor off scott free as the he/she should have had the skill and experience to deal with the in-water situation. Once again we have a training agency certification process that can be sometimes questionable on the required experience side.

There have been a whole bunch of losers in this accident. My heartfelt condolences go out to all involved particularly this gentleman's family, friends and the folks he was in the water with. This is a wonderful sport but there is nothing underwater worth dying for. If we had training agencies that were less concerned with marketing and more concerned about product situations like this one would be far fewer and farther between.

So GTAdiver rather than make rather broad slanerous statements in reference to any dive facility why not call a spade a spade and have a look at the root causes as some other more reasonable folks have sugested in this forum?
 
The Tick once bubbled...


So GTAdiver rather than make rather broad slanerous statements in reference to any dive facility why not call a spade a spade and have a look at the root causes as some other more reasonable folks have sugested in this forum?


I have heard pretty much the inside scoop on what happened and it truly something that I feel sympathy to the family of the person who has died.

I will refrain from commenting on this tragic event and let the investigation take place and then comment after all the "facts" are made public. I trust that most on this board would agree with this course of action. Let us not slander or politicize a death of a fellow diver in this public forum without having "all" the facts.
 

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