Diver death - So Cal?

[Otter]

I agree that being proficient at disconnecting your pressurized inflator hose underwater, while perhaps task loaded or emotionally overloaded, is an important skill to master. It could save your life under certain conditions. But I don't remember that being a required PADI OW skill. I'm not sure if that was part of my OW certification either (June last year). So I pulled out the PADI OW book, just to satisfy my curiosity. I'm not finding that skill in the list of skills you must demonstrate in any of the 4 OW dives, and I'm not finding any references in the index. I've been thinking about spending one of my upcoming dives practicing the basics, and that seems like a great one to add to the list. Mike, where is this in the PADI protocol? Thanks.

Kevin

Kevin,
We did it in the pool only. As was pointed out, its not required in the ocean. I did a quick scan of the threads so it may have already been mentioned...you can also invert, and kick down hard to slow an ascent (or flare) while you are disconnecting and assuming you have dump valves on the bottom, dumping air. Perhaps that something we should practice in an upcoming dive?

 

[Otter]

Yup , I remember this skill as well..... and that was a long time ago....Two things I learned to deal with a stuck LP Inflator valve - first, disconnect, second, if you can't, the valve is designed to dump faster than it fills, so if you can't disconnect get it over your head and dump if you can.

which brings up another related thorny issue, if you have an air 2 or simlar device that does not have a "Y" connector, if this happens and you disconnect the LP Inflator hose, any guesses as to what esle you've disconnected? And suddenly your buddy comes up giving the OOA signal... I KNOW they don't teach air sharing anymore....Read Into THin Air for a good lesson on how most accidents happen, lots of little things adding up to one big thing.

anyway, not to hijack the thread, just a pet peeve.

chris

I'll take the risk only because the accident appears to have happend several months ago, and as one poster pointed out, already discussed....

I understand the concern with an AIR2/AAS issue, but I would assume that in the case of the stuck lp inflator hose, we are terminating the dive, correct? So while its possible an OOA situation could occur, there is a short window of time.

Secondly, an OOA situation could be bad in for some reason the 2nd stage of either your primary or alternate started freeflowing....which I see far too often (usually an Octo). There you would have to either buddy breathe and/or one of you would breathe from the freeflowing reg (at least that skill is still taught).

I guess I don't see a significant difference in risk in either situation, once there is an equipment failure, terminate the dive. What am I missing?

 

[MikeFerrara]

I'll take the risk only because the accident appears to have happend several months ago, and as one poster pointed out, already discussed....

I understand the concern with an AIR2/AAS issue, but I would assume that in the case of the stuck lp inflator hose, we are terminating the dive, correct? So while its possible an OOA situation could occur, there is a short window of time.

Maybe. First of all you may be a long way from the boat or shore. Why end the dive by swimming it on the surface? Unless of course it's because you don't have an alternate any more.

Second though, while many would and should end the dive with a failed power inflatorm you shouldn't need one to dive.

 

[Otter]

Maybe. First of all you may be a long way from the boat or shore. Why end the dive by swimming it on the surface? Unless of course it's because you don't have an alternate any more.

Second though, while many would and should end the dive with a failed power inflatorm you shouldn't need one to dive.

What if it was your 2nd stage that failed?

 

[MikeFerrara]

What if it was your 2nd stage that failed?

I'm not sure I understand the question. We were talking about a failed inflator right?

But...if one of my second stages fails I switch to the other and end the dive as soon as practical since I don't have one left to donate. I say as soon as practical because there are still cases where going directly up might not be a good idea or even possible. Even then, there's always buddy breathing though.

Is that what you were asking?

 

[ChrisM]

I

understand the concern with an AIR2/AAS issue, but I would assume that in the case of the stuck lp inflator hose, we are terminating the dive, correct? So while its possible an OOA situation could occur, there is a short window of time.

Usually. But let's you are at 100 feet at Farnsworth, nice little current (or for that matter, just exited Devil's Throat in Coz, 120+, current). Buddy is nearby. Inflator sticks on your Air 2, disconnect, "OK, let's disconnect and end the dive." Turn to go get buddy, but buddy is wildly swimming towards you giving the OOA signal.... You have no alternate... you give him your primary... you're freaked cuz he won't give it back. He is panicking. You feel panic creeping in.... during all this you have lost reference to the reef and are now in blue water, at 100 feet (or likely deeper at this point....) drifting in the current... with a panicked diver who refuses to return your only air source.....

So yeah, I guess no big deal, unless.......

My point is that the integrated octopus, IMHO, offers absoultely NO up side with HUGE downside. The use of this piece of equipment may contribute in a big way from snowballing what should be no big deal to a huge friggin deal.

I have yet to hear what is, IMHO only, a valid benefit to the use of an air 2. More streamlined from one less hose? Not if your octo is already bungeed properly. Plus, usually lots of stuff hanging off divers with air 2s negating any perceived effect, and even if it IS more streamlined, which I doubt anyone would notice, there are better ways with less disastrous results..........

And in fact the rew Air 2 users I've discussed this with said "hmmm, you're right...." They hadn't thought it through.

OK, rant off (sorry craig )

Chris

 

[wxyz]

Kevin,
We did it in the pool only. As was pointed out, its not required in the ocean. I did a quick scan of the threads so it may have already been mentioned...you can also invert, and kick down hard to slow an ascent (or flare) while you are disconnecting and assuming you have dump valves on the bottom, dumping air. Perhaps that something we should practice in an upcoming dive?

i wasn't taught this in the past. my buddy was, but you're right, only in the pool, and had to repeat the task only once.

i found it takes more than a few seconds with gloves on, ...in other words, too long (compared to how fast a wing/bc fully inflates when the button is held down or stuck). definitely something that i should practice when i think about it now.

has this been discussed in the general scuba section? if so, i haven't been able to find it, yet. i guess because it's not a common malfunction, it isn't given more attention.

one thing i'm not sure they teach is whether to immediately press the deflate button, while trying to wrangle the hose connector off, so as to vent some of the "inflating" air out of the hose instead of into the wing/bc.

 

[ChrisM]

one thing i'm not sure they teach is whether to immediately press the deflate button, while trying to wrangle the hose connector off, so as to vent some of the "inflating" air out of the hose instead of into the wing/bc.

Yes, you should since most inflators are designed to dump faster than they fill.

Chris

 

[mccabejc]

Okay, after some time in the pool this afternoon, I think I've licked the "stuck inflator valve" problem. Bottom of the pool (about 6 feet), gloves on, held the inflator valve button down, BC inflates, keep holding button down. First thing I do is yank on the right shoulder BC dump valve and don't let up. It empties BC faster than inflator inflates, so I stop ascending. With my left hand I bring the inflator hose to my right hand (which is still yanking the right dump valve), and with free fingers in right hand, plus the left hand, I disconnect the inflator hose. Much easier than I thought it would be. Total time: between 5 and 10 seconds, and I never reached the surface. In other words, if you're on the ball, and can grab your right shoulder dump valve quick enough, you should be able to accomplish the whole thing without ascending more than about 5 feet. Loss of air was somwhere around 50 psi.

I also tried to yank on the BC inflator hose to use the left hand dump, but it seems to deflate slower than the inflator inflates.

Comments?

 

[xSandman3]

I did the same thing, looked thru my manual right after seeing Mike's post, and there's nothing in there about recovering from a failed BC inflator valve. And nothing in the BC manual (Seaquest Pro QD+) about how to repair or replace one. Guess I need to make another trip to my LDS and talk to my instructor.

Chapter 2, page 117 of the PADI OW Manual. Our instructor almost failed my youngest daughter because of this skill. We had to buy her tighter fitting gloves so she could get ahold of it.