Diver Control: Hand Swimming

[Dr Neil]

"Its a sign that the new diver hasn't adapted comfortably to the water yet."

"Or they have not learned the full cadre of kicking techniques yet."

Interesting thread. Up until just a couple of weeks ago I would have firmly placed myself in the quiet hands camp.

However, I am currently going through my qualification dives at the VA Aquarium's new Red Tank. Due to the critters in the tanks and the physical features in the tank, all dives are conducted finless & barefoot.

Needless to say.... propulsion is 70% hands & arms and 30% feet. What a huge change in diving style! Talk about a swimming style that flies directly in the face of traditional OW diving.

What is even more difficult is cleaning a vertical surface with bang-on neutral buoyancy and quite feet.

My point is that the good diver can adapt and adjust to a variety of diving conditions. The novice diver should be taught basic propulsion skills with the caveat that there may be circumstances where hand propulsion is necessary, but it shouldn't a a part of ones primary propulsion technique.

 

[seaducer]

you can not enforce a standard in the US that does not allow someone with a handicap to participate if it is reasonable that they could. So if you say only people that can acomplish the giant stride are capable of being scuba divers you will have some lawyer take you to court saying he has a one legged man that can scuba and your standard is in violation of the (insert letters here). Same with setting a written standard (how I read traces OP) refusing to certify someone that needs to use their hands. you can not put it in writing.

Well not to get too far away from the OP but, if you cannot get in and out of the water unassisted in ordinary conditions (anybody might need help at times) you should not get an OW certification. There is nothing wrong with saying "In this program, you need to be able to perform X, Y and Z to be recognized as competent".

There is also a difference between the right to do something, and forcing other people to accomodate you if you need more help than the majority of people do. In this case there are programs set up to help handicapped people to dive. I think they are great and I would like to participate in them one day. But to demand every shop/instructor/boat operator/agency to change things around for the few handicapped people who wish to dive is taking it a bit too far IMO.

 

[Diver0001]

Oh, hell no....

Oh I see what you were saying to Walter then, that you don't mind if they're backing up by sculling it.

Gotcha.

Yeah, that's a different issue than I think we started out talking about. What I thought Trace was talking about was flapping about in an attempt to stay in trim.

R..

 

[cdolphin]

On my fourth open water dive we toured the area, and the DM handed me her flashlight. She later told me it quieted my hand sculling. That was the first time I'd even heard of hand sculling or that it was to be avoided.

Now if she'd put the lanyard on one wrist and had me hold the light in the other hand, that would have kept my hands together.

 

[Mike Boswell]

I would be very interested in reading any studies that support the assertion that using the arms/hands for locomotion is inefficient. Can someone please cite these studies?

 

[*dave*]

I would be very interested in reading any studies that support the assertion that using the arms/hands for locomotion is inefficient. Can someone please cite these studies?

Try doing a complete helicopter turn using your hands and again using only fins. Try a couple timed laps alternating between hands and fins.

Do you really need a study?

 

[Diver0001]

I would be very interested in reading any studies that support the assertion that using the arms/hands for locomotion is inefficient. Can someone please cite these studies?

I don't know about any studies on this particular issue but I do notice what I believe to be a link between people who are restless in their bodies and who are restless in their minds.

On the same token, one could put a student under a lot of "pressure" to keep the hands still, which is just as likely to distract them from something important, so it's important to find a balance with these little things.

Eventually the ideal goal you would want to work toward if you're perfectionistic at all is the situation where every movement is deliberate. However that's not everyone's goal so I would hope the perfectionists do not judge those who have other goals. Sadly, that's not always the case.

R..

 

[eponym]

[ . . . ] one could put a student under a lot of "pressure" to keep the hands still, which is just as likely to distract them from something important, so it's important to find a balance with these little things.

Well said.

I recently had a private OWD student who, at the end of pool descents, would immediately cross her hands out in front of her and therefore omit to make the final small buoyancy adjustments she needed. On the plus side, she never sculled.

I realized that she was trying to model my normal attitude in the water instead of remembering from our "trim" talk that arm position *may* be used to adjust trim if needed. So we talked about that.

And I'm trying to vary my arm position while teaching so as not give the unintended message that there's only one acceptible position.

-Bryan

 

[FireInMyBones]

...Here's a clip of a guy who took to diving as naturally as anyone I've ever seen. This was shot on his third pool session and aside from developing a back kick, I don't really have a lot of constructive feedback that would eliminate the hand sculling seen in the video. His trim could use some improvement, but he needs a reverse gear more than anything.


You must have something better than "Don't do that.".

Only thing that I can see to help him would be for him not to kick (this is hard even for me...I just spent an hour in the pool and learned how to back kick). But an instructor once told me that you do not need a reverse if you are not moving forward.

 

[FireInMyBones]

you can not enforce a standard in the US that does not allow someone with a handicap to participate if it is reasonable that they could. So if you say only people that can acomplish the giant stride are capable of being scuba divers you will have some lawyer take you to court saying he has a one legged man that can scuba and your standard is in violation of the (insert letters here).

ADA: Americans with Disability Act
My uncle is a paraplegic. If he wanted to learn to dive, he would go through an agency's adaptive scuba program, not the same thing that everyone else goes through.

You made a good point.

Same with setting a written standard (how I read traces OP) refusing to certify someone that needs to use their hands. you can not put it in writing.

Any written or other standards are getting slack. I know that others, though not everyone, agree. Just because somebody says that you can not do something, not due to moral reasons but as not to hurt someone's feelings, doesn't mean you have to listen. There are agencies that produce better divers because of their higher standards.

Please understand that I do not disagree with you that there are those that wish to make it where everyone can pass. I disagree with those that wish to actually pass everyone. It is my personal belief that there are just some people who can not pass (those that just need a little extra work do not fall into this category). This does not mean that people in this category should be left out or over looked. That would be unkind. But it is equally unkind to pass those individuals with a once over.

:focus:
As I mentioned briefly on a similar post, not all scull strokes are negative. Several special cases have been mentioned above by other posters. However, sculling to take care of an issue that is wrong, in my opinion, should be addressed.

...My Fundies instructor told his students, "If you are swimming with your hands, you're trying to fix something. If you're pushing down, you're negative. If you're pulling up, you're too positive. If you're using one hand, you're tilting. Figure out what the issue is and fix it, and the hand use will go away." I still think there is a lot of truth in this...

I agree. [user]Walter[/user] and [user]*dave*[/user] mentioned a few good ways to do so.