DiveMaster or IANTD Deep Diver?

[WillAbbott]

Ok, this is likely to get a million answers, of different ideas.

But, I've been trying to figure out what to do lately, between a trip to the Sunshine Coast in Canada, some gear, IANTD Deep diver, or starting my DiveMaster training.

An instructor friend of mine, who's doing Deep and Adv Nitrox recommends that I do my DM first, then some additional dives bellow 120, and get some larger tanks so that I can start doing dives close to NDL limits, then after I get about 200 dives do Adv Nitrox/Deep. However he also says he learned as much if not more from Adv Nitrox and Deep than he did in DiveMaster.

I suppose DM is a way to possibly make a buck or two (not likely), but also possibly get a shop discount at my shop, or what not... I know my shop basically already told me they'd use me after training, the more DM's the merrier.

I'd like to do the Deep as I think the specifics of what is taught... Beggining technical proceedures, dive planning, deco like thinking, etc... is more of what I'd like to know right now... I'm sure time and experience wise however that the DM training will give me more, being as the internships, pool time, open water dives, etc...

Just curious of everyones oppinions, particularly of anyone who may have been through one or both of these classes (or beyond)

Thanks!

 

[MikeFerrara]

Ok, this is likely to get a million answers, of different ideas.

But, I've been trying to figure out what to do lately, between a trip to the Sunshine Coast in Canada, some gear, IANTD Deep diver, or starting my DiveMaster training.

This is kind of like asking if you should buy a new car or a set of golf clubs. If you want to supervise or help train other divers you should take DM training. If you're interested in furthering your own skills the IANTD Deep Diver/Advanced Nitrox is one way to go.

An instructor friend of mine, who's doing Deep and Adv Nitrox recommends that I do my DM first, then some additional dives bellow 120, and get some larger tanks so that I can start doing dives close to NDL limits, then after I get about 200 dives do Adv Nitrox/Deep. However he also says he learned as much if not more from Adv Nitrox and Deep than he did in DiveMaster.

DM training and Advanced Nitrox can't be compared. One teaches you to dive and the other teaches you to supervise others.

One thing that is clear is that your freind doesn't understand the purpose for the Advanced Nitrox/Deep Diver course. You shouldn't go do a bunch of deep dives in preperation for Advanced Nitrox. You should take training like that in preperation for doing those dives.

I suppose DM is a way to possibly make a buck or two (not likely), but also possibly get a shop discount at my shop, or what not... I know my shop basically already told me they'd use me after training, the more DM's the merrier.

I'd like to do the Deep as I think the specifics of what is taught... Beggining technical proceedures, dive planning, deco like thinking, etc... is more of what I'd like to know right now... I'm sure time and experience wise however that the DM training will give me more, being as the internships, pool time, open water dives, etc...

Again they are two totally different things. If you want to be out diving wrecks or something and gathering that kind of experience then you have to go do that. If you do your DM and spend a lot of time helping with OW classes then you will be very experienced at that but it won't do anything to make you a capable wreck diver.

Just curious of everyones oppinions, particularly of anyone who may have been through one or both of these classes (or beyond)

Thanks!

And yes I've done and teach both. LOL You can have fun with both but they are completely unrelated. If I had my training like Advanced Nitrox would be a requirement to be a DM or instructor and in fact in some agencies (like IANTD) it is.

 

[Rhuland]

IMHO, go with the IANTD training first. I feel that bettering your own skills can only make you a better divemaster later. Along the same lines of bettering your own skills, you have the ability to practice in a pool all the skills that divemasters need to know without going through the course at this time.

My personal experience has been that time in the water is the only way to better my skills. I have done this by devoting alot of time to anykind of diving I was able to do with my local dive shop this year. That included taking technical courses as well as working on my divemaster skills and helping with BOW & AOW classes & doing lots of wreck dives.

Dive dive dive

 

[WillAbbott]

If I had my training like Advanced Nitrox would be a requirement to be a DM or instructor and in fact in some agencies (like IANTD) it is.

That sentance there pretty much answers the question...

Sorry I should have said I knew they were totally different... and I agree with the part about doing deep dives in prep for Deep/Adv Nitrox being silly... I told my friend the same thing, that even PADI says to dive in the 100-130 mark, means taking the Deep diver specialty... of course I've been bloow 100' once or twice. but that's not the point. I think he was more thinking because of my current lack of experience, only having 50 dives over the course of one year... he even sent me an accident report of someone who dies on the Andrea Doria, after a rapid progression through certifications, however he also had multiple health conditions, including diabetes, an enlarged heart, and obesity... he also was given some certifications without meeting the # of logged dives required by the training agency (whoops on the instructors part)

The thing is I want to do both at some point, obviously, or I wouldn't be in a predicament (sp?) I'd kind of always thought DM would wait until I had more gear, such as doubles, etc. (just because I wanted to have it before then)

But mainly I want to be a good diver before passing on knowledge to other divers. My long term goals include going on to Tri-Mix (maybe not hypoxic) and Instructorship, and after college possibly try and get a job at a resort or something (I know it may not happen but it's my current career goal) so I easily have a year before I can even move onto the instructor part, etc.

 

[Cave Diver]

Ok, this is likely to get a million answers, of different ideas.

But, I've been trying to figure out what to do lately, between a trip to the Sunshine Coast in Canada, some gear, IANTD Deep diver, or starting my DiveMaster training.

An instructor friend of mine, who's doing Deep and Adv Nitrox recommends that I do my DM first, then some additional dives bellow 120, and get some larger tanks so that I can start doing dives close to NDL limits, then after I get about 200 dives do Adv Nitrox/Deep. However he also says he learned as much if not more from Adv Nitrox and Deep than he did in DiveMaster.

I suppose DM is a way to possibly make a buck or two (not likely), but also possibly get a shop discount at my shop, or what not... I know my shop basically already told me they'd use me after training, the more DM's the merrier.

I'd like to do the Deep as I think the specifics of what is taught... Beggining technical proceedures, dive planning, deco like thinking, etc... is more of what I'd like to know right now... I'm sure time and experience wise however that the DM training will give me more, being as the internships, pool time, open water dives, etc...

Just curious of everyones oppinions, particularly of anyone who may have been through one or both of these classes (or beyond)

Thanks!

Speaking from someone who has taken both courses, I would say that you should take the advanced courses prior to becoming a DM.

As a DM, you are in a leadership position. Others will look to you as a role model and for advice. The more experience and training that you have the better you will be able to fulfill that role and the more experience you will have to draw upon in order to solve problems you might encounter with those in your care.

 

[crispos]

My vote is do the DM with a recreational scuba diving agency, and obviously with a good Instructor. I went through 4 years of diving and over 200 dives in many environments and read most of the technical diving manuals, and am just now thinking of going from IANTD Adv Nitrox to Technical. However, I am older than you and therefore may not be as capable physically nor have the additional possibilty of a career in mind (SAR diver, commercial diver, etc).

1) Being a technical diver is not a "kind of nice to have" knowledge or diving activity. You really have to want to become a technical diver and also the bucks to equip yourself properly. Obviously you are already diving in cold (a balmy 46F?), doing drifts, and you are on the way to making the decision, but you aren't there yet.

2) Advising someone to accept the risks of deeper diving, either with or without IANTD or DIR training, is not something I would do lightly.

3) You obviously are an intelligent, organized young man who has been bitten by the diving bug. You must temper your enthusiasm and passion with patience and good judgement. DM's get to learn all this, if only because they have to get bossed around by cuss'ass Instructors for no pay (what the LDS is offering you).

4) As has been pointed out, don't dive beyond 100 feet without redundancy. If your O ring blows, it doesn't matter how big the tank is.

By the way, where is that Sunshine Coast in Canada? I never heard of it.....

 

[pt40fathoms]

First off let me just say that this is only my opinion, and I does not take into account your experience level and comfort level in the water.

That being said, I would look at the courses in the simple light of "what will I get the greatest gain from". The DM course is a step into the "professional" diving environment. Simply put you will be able to be paid to take people on dive charters, as well as being paid to aid in instruction. You will also be able to conduct 'discover scuba' events (PADI) after meeting the requirements. You MUST carry insurance in order to maintain your credentials, and will need to renew your DM membership yearly. Their are more points, but I'll stop at this juncture to say that the last two points will cost you money, every year, forever.....

The IANTD and NITROX courses on the other hand will advance your personal knowledge and skills into an area of diving that you may or may not take advantage of as often as you might the DM course. That determination is entirely up to you. You will not be able to be paid, or supervise divers in any fashion what so ever with those certifications, but that is not the intent of the certifications anyways now is it. However once you obtain the certifications, you do not need to renew them yearly, and that fact alone may sway you towards personal improvement skills first, professional skills later. It’s what I would do.

 

[MikeFerrara]

1) Being a technical diver is not a "kind of nice to have" knowledge or diving activity. You really have to want to become a technical diver and also the bucks to equip yourself properly. Obviously you are already diving in cold (a balmy 46F?), doing drifts, and you are on the way to making the decision, but you aren't there yet.

The IANTD Advanced Nitrox course is not considered a technical course by IANTD. The course involves only limited staged decompression and has a maximum depth of 130 ft

2) Advising someone to accept the risks of deeper diving, either with or without IANTD or DIR training, is not something I would do lightly.

Not only don't I try to talk people into technical diving but I don't push people to dive at all.

IMO, every one who plans on diving to anywhere near 100 ft should have training like the IANTD Advanced Nitrox. Choose your own agency of course.

3) You obviously are an intelligent, organized young man who has been bitten by the diving bug. You must temper your enthusiasm and passion with patience and good judgement. DM's get to learn all this, if only because they have to get bossed around by cuss'ass Instructors for no pay (what the LDS is offering you).

4) As has been pointed out, don't dive beyond 100 feet without redundancy. If your O ring blows, it doesn't matter how big the tank is.

This is a big problem I have with some recreational agencies. They teach to 130 ft but they do 130 ft dives the same way using the same equipment that they use for a 30 ft dive. They don't teach the planning skills that they should like gas management and decompression theory and they don't require or teach the use of redundancy and they don't require the skill mastery before doing deep dives. They usually give the class a silly name like deep diver specialty which by the way isn't usually a prerequisite for instructor or divemaster training.

 

[ReefTrekker]

You've mentioned some concern with experience......

I'd go the DM route first. It'll give you a chance to boost some of your fundamentals before going on to the IANTD course.

The DM class isn't just about learning to superivise. You'll get a decent amount of knowledge development in physics, physiology, decompression theory, etc. You'll also get to work on your fundamental skills (for "demonstration quality", which is good practice) and your rescue skills.

I think it would put you in a better position to really get more for your buck on the Adv. Nitrox class.

You also mentioned perhaps going on to instructor (I think?)
Having the DM will get you started on getting some experience working with classes now.......

Just my thoughts.....
but either way, I think one will help you get more out of the other.

Good luck!


Jeremy Bidwell
PADI IDCS 177450

 

[MikeFerrara]

You've mentioned some concern with experience......

I'd go the DM route first. It'll give you a chance to boost some of your fundamentals before going on to the IANTD course.

The DM class isn't just about learning to superivise. You'll get a decent amount of knowledge development in physics, physiology, decompression theory, etc. You'll also get to work on your fundamental skills (for "demonstration quality", which is good practice) and your rescue skills.

Practicing demonstration quality skills on your knees isn't going to help you in an Advanced Nitrox class. There's plenty of physics and physiology in the Advanced Nitrox class. You don't need a divemaster class to read the recreational encyclopedia. You also don't need an anual membership fee unless you want to be actively envolved in training or supervision.

I think it would put you in a better position to really get more for your buck on the Adv. Nitrox class.

It hasen't helped any one that I've noticed.