Divemaster & Instructor Qualifications: Your Opinion

[Peter Guy]

It's always nice to be called a liar, even if done sweetly.

LeeAnne -- rather than ask "other instructors" why not go to the source? Ask PADI. The following is what I base my instruction upon -- an explanation of the PADI system from years ago and an explanation which is still being taught (required reading as of 2009 for the IDC):

An instructor teaches a diver course assisted by the materials in the PADI System. The act of teaching consists of a) showing how to perform skills/conveying knowledge and b) assessing mastery of those skills and knowledge by having the student apply/demonstrate them.

Elaboration/Application -- Because the student must apply and demonstrate his diving skills, not only can PADI courses vary depending upon the student and the environment, but they must!...

Successful teaching requires accommodating for such differences; that's not deviating from PADI Standards. That's instructor elaboration and application to specific circumstances. This is what fills the void between the established base knowledge provided by the PADI System and the individual needs of each student.

Sometimes it's not easy to differentiate between elaboration/application and "exceeding" standards. A good rule of thumb is that elaboration/application helps the student more readily apply knowledge or a skill already in the course through further knowledge or techniques specific to him or his environment. "Exceeding" standards, on the other hand, tends to alter the objective by adding unrelated knowledge or skills for which the student has no immediate application, and tends to make the course unnecessarily difficult.

[The author goes on to give examples including:]

Elaboration: In Module Four, going into more detail about the need for altitude procedures with the RDP when teaching a class in a high-altitude community.

...

Arbitrary course additions "just to exceed standards" can be very detrimental and should be avoided. Adding games and skill circuits that repeat existing skills, on the other hand, is encouraged.

Expanding upon academic material to meet local conditions, personal needs or accomodate changes in equipment and technique, is encouraged.

Hopefully, this editorial helps clear up confusion over what "exceeding" standards is and what it isn't. PADI gives instructors a skeleton -- the course outline and materials. It's up to the instructor to supply the muscle and skin -- elaborate and apply -- to make a whole course.

[This is from the article: Is the PADI System Flexible?, by Drew Richardson, The Undersea Journal, Second Quarter, 1993, reprinted in the book, Best of the Undersea Journal, a text required for study for the PADI I.E.]emphasis deleted

Perhaps this will provide you with some understanding of why I refuse to accept that PADI requires instruction to be at the minimums.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

You Must be able to handle yourself calmly in ALL situations to really focus on others. This takes training and experience. This calmness in all situations only comes with experience - lots of it in all types of dive conditions.

I think it's important that someone who instructors or assists with students have been through some stressful situations underwater themselves, so they know how they react, and they can relate to the mental and emotional processes that students are going through.

A leader is calm under fire. If you have led in other adventure recreations and/or sports, that experience crosses over. Even is no one follows your lead, life on the edge is often responsible for extreme calmness under fire. But even if we can handle stressful situations I do not think most instructors can relate to the "average" new dive student.

I'd bet that Walter is one of only a small percentage of Instructors who were not decent swimmers and water comfy before starting diving. What I see in terms of general new scuba students are mostly weak swimming and water wary. I can empathize, encourage and educate but I doubt I can really relate.

 

[Leejnd]

It's always nice to be called a liar, even if done sweetly.

Um...I wasn't calling you a liar, and I rather resent that. I was simply reporting what I've been told, and I made that clear. Where did I call you a liar?

LeeAnne -- rather than ask "other instructors" why not go to the source? Ask PADI. The following is what I base my instruction upon -- an explanation of the PADI system from years ago and an explanation which is still being taught (required reading as of 2009 for the IDC):

I'm not an instructor, so I can't go to the source. So I asked other instructors.

Perhaps this will provide you with some understanding of why I refuse to accept that PADI requires instruction to be at the minimums.

Again, I simply reported what I've been told, and read. As I said before, if I was wrong, mea culpa...but was I?

 

[Leejnd]

So...just to be clear...what *I* said was:

Note that some certifying agencies are pretty rigid about NOT allowing their instructors to teach beyond what's in the course...EXACTLY what's in the course, no more, no less. Instructors don't necessarily have the option of teaching above the minimum standards - they can get in trouble for that.

And what PADI says is:

Sometimes it's not easy to differentiate between elaboration/application and "exceeding" standards. A good rule of thumb is that elaboration/application helps the student more readily apply knowledge or a skill already in the course through further knowledge or techniques specific to him or his environment. "Exceeding" standards, on the other hand, tends to alter the objective by adding unrelated knowledge or skills for which the student has no immediate application, and tends to make the course unnecessarily difficult.

:::snip:::

Arbitrary course additions "just to exceed standards" can be very detrimental and should be avoided. Adding games and skill circuits that repeat existing skills, on the other hand, is encouraged.

And so...you're saying PADI doesn't instruct instructors not to exceed standards?

And where did I call you a liar?

 

[Peter Guy]

LeeAnn -- just because there is no "tongue in cheek" emoticon doesn't mean it isn't used.

Re "calling me a liar" -- what else could I take from your post that you didn't believe what I wrote? ONLY if it was verified by someone else (apparently someone you would trust to tell you the truth) would you accept my statement regarding teaching within the PADI system.

Re your double negative statement -- What Mr. Richardson wrote 17 years ago, and what is the basis of the PADI system still (at least IN THEORY!!!), is that PADI has created a course outline with skill and academic standards. Each course has its own standards and before an Instructor is permitted to pass a student, each standard (academic and physical skill) must be met and mastered by the student.

It is up to each instructor to tailor the instruction to the student under the conditions facing the student and instructor so that the student is able to learn that "mastery."

It is clear to me that I am not only "allowed" to teach more than what is solely "in the book" but, in fact, I am "encouraged" to teach more than what is solely in the book. And if in my opinion local conditions are such that "x" should be taught, it is my duty to teach "x" even if it is NOT specifically taught "in the book."

I believe the one caveat is that even if I teach it, even if I quiz on it (or demand a physical skill be demonstrated), I am not permitted to fail a student who has "mastered" all of the academic and physical skills that are the "skeleton" described in the article. Of course I am the person who gets to decide when a skill is "mastered"....

 

[Divedoggie]

Can other PADI instructors share whether or not this is true? If it's not, mea culpa - but I'll be surprised given amount of ink it's received in here, and the number of instructors I've heard this from.

The only reason I mentioned it at all is that the OP said that one of the things he looks for in an instructor is someone who will teach "well above the minimum standards" - and, depending on the agency, from what I've been told, this may not be an option.

As another PADI Instructor, I'm going to have to back Peter up completely. We can and do teach well above minimum standards.

There are specific rules concerning depth in both confined water and open water, there are specific skills that are taught in specific modules and we make sure that we follow those standards to the letter.

The Instructor slates provide and outline of skills, the minimum standards and their sequence. Its simple to follow the outline and then creatively yet logically, appropriately and safely expand apon it. After a few years, I used the PADI modules skills and standards as a foundation for my own curriculum and then I laminated that info into my own personal set of "special slates."

A minimum standard like, "student shall hover motionless for at least 30 seconds", can be expanded on. After the 30 seconds, the student has officially accomplished the skill and if push came to shove I'd sign off on it, but if they are upright I require them to rotate to a horizontal position and then swim a lap slowly while maintaining depth.
Then the next lap is done without a mask, at the end of which they must replace the mask while still hovering. If they end up kneeling while replacing the mask I'd still sign off on it, but I challenge them personally to accomplish the "real world" skill and they respond.

In addition to instructing at a local dive shop and also independently, I teach semester long PADI OW, AOW, and Rescue at a University where the students receive Health Sciences credits for successfully passing the class. I have failed students and also given incompletes, but most thrive and really enjoy the class.

The full content of the courses taught at the University vs the shop, or independently vary quite a bit based on who the clients are, time constraints, etc. They all adhere to PADI standards and sequencing, but there is a tremendous amount of additional information and skill that the students are exposed to.
None of my students are taught only the PADI minimum standards and course outline. I do use PADI course outlines as a guide to make sure that I address every single required standard in its proper sequence, but I expand on the subject matter.

On Open Water Cert dives, our students never even see the bottom. No Open Water skills are ever done kneeling.

In an AOW course at the dive shop last week. The students completed every knowledge review before arriving at the dive center and handed them in to me.
In the following 5 hours(over 2 separate nights) of discussion and classroom work, we never consulted the instructor's guide. We did discuss details of the 5 dives we will be doing, but also deep stops, planned and unplanned deco, cavern diving, dive profiles, Navy tables, RDP, dive computers, RGBM model, DCS/DCI, funny stories about narcosis, accidents and incidents, Rescue techniques, gas blending, advantages of Nitrox, P02 and related depth, Ice diving, equipment configuration, tuned a reg on the flowbench, compared a Fusion to a Bare trilam to a whites bilam to an Oniell 6mm neo, and so on.

We also rehearsed and practiced balanced horizontal positioning on the classroom tables and floor and watched a wreck video.
Then we had a 2 hour pool session which was a buoyancy and finning workshop and basic skills review.

Our 5 AOW dives will be next week. The students will accomplish the exact standards required by PADI for each specialty dive, but they will also be exhibiting excellent buoyancy control, good trim, ascent rates not exceeding 30fpm, gas management, buddy team awareness, a variety of finning techniques, and altitude conversions/plans.

The PADI system can be streamlined for the vacation diver who just wants the basics and her card asap, or expanded apon for a college student receiving an entire semester's worth of information.

.

 

[Leejnd]

Y'know, this is really much ado about splitting hairs. I never said I agreed that instructors shouldn't teach beyond minimum standards. In fact I don't...I actually think they should. All I said was that I'd been told by instructors that some agencies (mainly PADI) instructed their instructors NOT to. That's really all. Not sure why you got all up in a lather about it.

And Peter, disagreeing with someone, or wanting to hear more than one opinion, is not akin to calling someone a liar. It's just...disagreeing. I realize it's hard to be disagreed with...but I did not call you a liar. I simply repeated what I've been told, and have read, many times.

And I still can't read PADI's instructions from 17 years ago any differently than..."don't exceed the standards". I disagree with that...but it does sound like that's what they're saying.

But I'm not a scuba instructor...as I pointed out before.

 

[Leejnd]

As another PADI Instructor, I'm going to have to back Peter up completely. We can and do teach well above minimum standards.
.

That's great! I agree that instructors SHOULD be able to. Our instructors stuck strictly to the course material, because they'd been told that they had to, in order to be compliant with PADI. They took us diving after our class was over, to give us more personally-designed training and skill development. So we ended up getting what we needed in the end, and they felt that they'd complied with PADI's expectations of them as instructors of PADI courses.

 

[Hawkwood]

I am going to throw something else out here in the discussion about "Standards".

Take this for what it is worth. This is what I learned regarding "Standards" and "Objectives" or "Performance Requirements" as I completed the PADI IDC and IE.

The Standards refer to topics such as maximum teaching ratios, definitions, minimum age requirements, prerequisites for courses, paperwork, the learning environment, instructor and assistant qualifications, certification requirements, etc.

The Standards do not spell out to instructors how they must teach a topic or demonstrate a skill. The Standards provide the framework only.

Then there are the Performance Requirements or Objectives. These are what is required of the student to have learned or "mastered" before moving on. For example, "Respond to air depletion by signalling out-of-air, then securing and breathing from an alternate air source supplied by a buddy for at least one minute while swimming underwater". How one demonstrates or has the students perform it is up to the instructor provided the student is able to perform exactly as it is written. Standards do not dictate to the instructor how to teach this "skill". There are guidelines, but again those do not dictate to the instructor how to teach that "skill" or the topic.

One cannot violate "Standards" in leading students through "Performance Requirements". However, the instructor does have latitude on how to teach a topic or skill.

 

[OkByMe]

I really don't think it is all that important how many or to some greater extent, quality of dives are, to being an instructor. What is important is that the person responsible for initiating someone else to the sport and technical diving community is able to do just 3 things. Make sure there is a thorough understanding of the science, use and manipulation of the equipment and attempt to insure that the person is capable of solving the minute to minute problems of being underwater.

That sounds kind of general - too much so, but you have to look realistically at what the result should be. This is very much like teaching someone to drive. Everyone, myself included, was initially intimidated by the vehicle. It was big, could kill things and destroy property. I was taught how to accelerate and brake, how to shift gears and why, how and when I could pass, to judge turning radius and speed - which way to turn my wheels into the curb on a hill - parking brake and so on. Simply, maybe just intuitively understanding the science, manipulation of the equipment and the minute to minute problem solving while driving. But the only way I was, and indeed did get better at it, was to drive.

Not a whole lot of difference between diving and driving. You have equipment failures, people doing the wrong thing in response to a given circumstance because of panic or maybe they still don't understand the science or the equipment. And, then there is the next "Joe" that gives you trouble.

I have been driving since 1965 and diving since 1968. I managed to get a drivers license - that got me behind the wheel and I manged the certification - that got me underwater. Now maybe I'm still alive because of just more than one factor. Do you have ANY idea how much the equipment has improved over the years, how much safer and reliable it is? How much easier it is to operate and maintain. I'm talking about both the realm of diving and driving.

In all that time, I have never sought out any formal instruction for driving, except for motorcycle, needed the license - or diving, except for NITROX, needed the card.
All in all, safety is more a factor of comfort with a process and understanding of why things happen which leads to experience. Experience is nothing more than problem solving and the more you do it, the more problems are solved - where each successive event is just "the same thing, only different".

So... My advice is to drive to the boat or shore and go diving....