Dive Xtras BlackTip in a cave

[DA Aquamaster]

I had mentioned this on another thread and was snarkily told to get a piranha.

It's a work in progress. I get that Dive Xtras wants to maintain some separation between the $1499 Blacktip intended for the recreational market and the $4995 Piranha P1 and the $6195 P2 intended for the technical diving market.

However, there's a lot of potential sales to be found with technical divers who are interested in using a DPV, but are financially ready or able to drop $5K on a scooter, or $10K if they are a diving couple. Currently, they are buying used lead acid scooters like the UV-18 or UV-26, or one of the SS models for somewhere in the $1200 to $1800 price range, and then usually having to replace the battery fairly soon if not immediately.

There's also a large potential market for technical divers who want a reliable, portable, and comparatively inexpensive back up scooter. At $1499 the Blacktip is affordable, and the basic design is both rugged and durable. If it could be trimmed out level, it would be perfect, even when 6-8 inches longer, and few pounds heavier. The narrow tube is a big plus in that application, where it would most likely be nose clipped to a butt D-ring. The same $1200-$1800 used market is where divers have been going to meet that need, and right now, the only advantage some of those DPVs have is the ability to attain level trim.

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Even better, there is substantial cross over between those two markets and the serious full on $5K to $7K technical scooter market. There's value in making the first hit affordable so that divers develop the interest, and then get into technical DPV diving enough that they need a more capable scooter. If they reach that point, the BlackTip then moves from primary DPV to spare/backup duty, where it is still ideal, still useful and still necessary, adding additional safety and making gas planning easier.

Just as importantly, the diver also has a history with a Dive Xtras product. That positive history makes deciding to buy a Piranha, rather than a competitor's scooter, an easy decision and a natural progression.

That's why Dive Xtras needs to develop a extension for the BlackTip.

 

[RayfromTX]

How much buoyancy occurs at the nose when the blacktip is weighted for neutral? I'm thinking with the 12AH dewalt batteries.

If we take the steel plates out of the nose and use a lead weight extended out in front of the nose, how far would we need to extend a 2 lb lead weight out front to achieve trim in salt water. I would assume gross calculations. Minor trim and buoyancy could occur within the nose. Would that be 3 inches or more? I'm thinking of an add on device attached at the nose handle attachment points that could hold regular lead weights.

How far out would be required in fresh water?

 

[Jeremy Williams]

How far out would be required in fresh water?

eeeeek! Anybody have a Statics textbook?

 

[Scuba Cobra]

It's a work in progress. I get that Dive Xtras wants to maintain some separation between the $1499 Blacktip intended for the recreational market and the $4995 Piranha P1 and the $6195 P2 intended for the technical diving market.

However, there's a lot of potential sales to be found with technical divers who are interested in using a DPV, but are financially ready or able to drop $5K on a scooter, or $10K if they are a diving couple. Currently, they are buying used lead acid scooters like the UV-18 or UV-26, or one of the SS models for somewhere in the $1200 to $1800 price range, and then usually having to replace the battery fairly soon if not immediately.

There's also a large potential market for technical divers who want a reliable, portable, and comparatively inexpensive back up scooter. At $1499 the Blacktip is affordable, and the basic design is both rugged and durable. If it could be trimmed out level, it would be perfect, even when 6-8 inches longer, and few pounds heavier. The narrow tube is a big plus in that application, where it would most likely be nose clipped to a butt D-ring. The same $1200-$1800 used market is where divers have been going to meet that need, and right now, the only advantage some of those DPVs have is the ability to attain level trim.

----

Even better, there is substantial cross over between those two markets and the serious full on $5K to $7K technical scooter market. There's value in making the first hit affordable so that divers develop the interest, and then get into technical DPV diving enough that they need a more capable scooter. If they reach that point, the BlackTip then moves from primary DPV to spare/backup duty, where it is still ideal, still useful and still necessary, adding additional safety and making gas planning easier.

Just as importantly, the diver also has a history with a Dive Xtras product. That positive history makes deciding to buy a Piranha, rather than a competitor's scooter, an easy decision and a natural progression.

That's why Dive Xtras needs to develop a extension for the BlackTip.

The trim issue and trigger is honestly what made me pick up a Sierra. Mine has the PTB battery tray in it and upgraded electronics. I'm hoping it will have a long enough battery for me.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

How much buoyancy occurs at the nose when the blacktip is weighted for neutral? I'm thinking with the 12AH dewalt batteries.

If we take the steel plates out of the nose and use a lead weight extended out in front of the nose, how far would we need to extend a 2 lb lead weight out front to achieve trim in salt water. I would assume gross calculations. Minor trim and buoyancy could occur within the nose. Would that be 3 inches or more? I'm thinking of an add on device attached at the nose handle attachment points that could hold regular lead weights.

How far out would be required in fresh water?

The center of gravity on the BlackTip is right around the rear of the main body tube, while the center of buoyancy is just about in the middle of the tube. The caveat here is that I derived this based on weights and moment arms of each component and then calculating the CG (using the rear of the main body tube as the datum line), and more or less ball parking the center of buoyancy based on tube volume and the assumption that there's no lift in the tail.

Based on that CG and CB, the CG needs to move forward about 4 inches. I then calculated the shift in nose and battery weight if the main body tube was extended (which also shifts the CB forward as well). Depending on batteries used, you're looking at a 6" to 8" extension.

I did not calculate just extending the nose weight forward. I guess you'd end up with a Dive Xtras Narwhal with that approach. A rough guesstimate would be a similar 6"-8" as you would not be shifting the CB, but you also would not be shifting the battery weight forward either.