#$%#$%@# Dive Training!

[Lead_carrier]

Genesis once bubbled...
Not at all.

Second, what is my other option in such a case? Remain silent? Not raise the issue at all? Have no discussion?
.....

You have the email address of the director of training of SSI. Have you discussed it with them? They have all the contact information on the SSI website to contact them. They've always been prompt in responses with me. Have you contacted them with the complaint?

 

[scubasean]

Genesis once bubbled...
The trust has been violated; what else is there to resolve or fix?

As for walking out at the outset, how does a student judge when a sub like that is made? The other instructor might be even better than the person you know! You have no way to judge, and a student definitely has no way to judge.

The instant problem has to be solved by someone else, and that someone else will almost certainly be me. That's ok - its part of being with someone, and I have no objection to my role in it. This is particularly true since she knows how much fun it can be to dive, and how easy it can be - she's seen it, from the other side of a glass window. In fact, that's one of the dives she really wants to do, having seen me do it.

Hell, I love diving anyway, so its not really all that big a deal to take care of.

But I, and she, are the exception. Most people who get certified aren't going to have that available. If Joe off the street had this experience, they'd likely drop out after a couple of very frustrating dives, sensing that its "just too hard" - or worse, get hurt.

Since I didn't see where you talked to the shop owner afterwards, I can only assume you didn't. And you did take your chances, if you thought you had a particular instructor who you knew of ahead of time, and the person was switched. (Not sure if you had understood who the scheduled instructor was, or if you "tooks yer chances". If you/she hadn't known the scheduled inst., then the switch is immaterial. If you/she did, then you/she should have taken action, if you/she really wanted that person.)

As I understand, you aren't going to try to make it better for others who follow....

I would suggest that many folks before you probably took the same approach, leaving your g/f with the problem you believe she has/had. Telling us entertains us and provides something for us to do while not diving, but doesn't help fix the problem, so far as I can tell.

Unless I misread or misunderstood your response.

 

[diverbrian]

Your call, Genesis! You aren't helping the situation by ranting at us anymore. If you feel that shafted by the LDS owner, I respectfully suggest that you take it to SSI and let us know how it goes. Maybe it will help fix the situation for some diver after your girlfriend. We can't do anything more. We are faces behind computer screens, most of whom have day jobs well outside the industry.

So are you going to help be part of the solution? It sounds like you have the contact info and a good case. I hope that you use it and clean up an operation that wasn't/isn't running up to snuff.

 

[Charlie99]

Please tell the results of your conversations once you have contacted the shop owner and SSI.

 

[FLArmyBrat]

At risk of getting bashed myself for missing some post or another I will put my .02 worth in too (I never wait for an invitation).

I am going for my OW dives this weekend. So the class is still very fresh in my mind (and lungs). Bouyancy is stressed in our class. I know what to do to sink and rise and I am slowly, I repeat SLOWLY getting the weighting down. I do have bouyancy issues. But the issues are MINE and NOT my instuctors. They have done a great job of teaching me what needs to be done. It is now up to me to implement and continue to learn through more dive experiences what they taught me.

And one thing that bothered me and might have already been addressed...but isn't it a bit hypocritical to go on ranting about the instructors teaching to the standards and following the rules when you yourself thumb your nose at a simple one like not using Nitrox w/out the proper training/certifications??

Just wondering,
Laurel
:froggy:

 

[cmcarver]

sorry divermasterB i have been out of town for work and just got caught up. I am in St. Louis also. I go this weekend for my OW cert at Mermet Springs. I hope to dive at Bull Shoals around the end of October and want to dive as much as posible.

 

[Genesis]

And one thing that bothered me and might have already been addressed...but isn't it a bit hypocritical to go on ranting about the instructors teaching to the standards and following the rules when you yourself thumb your nose at a simple one like not using Nitrox w/out the proper training/certifications??

Breathing (not mixing, USING!) Nitrox mixes under 40% require exactly two computations to be understood to be done safely.

1. How to compute the MOD of a mix, given a desired exposure (PO2 of 1.4 or, if you prefer, 1.3 to be more conservative) so you know the MAXIMUM depth you may dive to on that mix. If you have a hard floor above that depth, you can safely ignore this issue, but you do need to know how to compute it.

2. How to compute the END, so you can use an air table to plan your dives.

These are two basic algebraic computations. The rest is window dressing; yes, you need to know how to mix Nitrox if you're going to do it, and you need to know what protocol is for oxygen service if you intend to actually take care of that side of it, but if someone hands you a tank of mixed Nitrox and an analyzer, and you verify a mix of 32% O2, then the two above calculations are the only additions to your basic OW training that you must be able to make in order to dive that mix safely.

There is nothing complicated about this. In fact, many agencies don't even demand that you perform a single dive for this.

Fundamentally, air IS Nitrox. To omit two computations from an OW class is nothing more than an attempt to grab more money, and IMHO its foolish to feed that troll.

BTW, what a difference a weekend makes. Funny how diving with the objective of working on this issue turns something hard into something where much progress is made. Its clear that its not a matter of it being hard - you simply have to introduce the concepts and actually spend some time on them!

 

[MikeFerrara]

divermasterB once bubbled...
Genesis...

Do you think that your girlfriend would still have been interested in taking up diving if it required that she commit 40-60 hours of her time for confined water and classroom instruction, plus 3-4 days for checkout dives?

Some will some won't. I haven't found a way to teach those who aren't willing to commit the time and effort required though so I don't try.

Also,

How long ago were you certified?

How many dives have you logged since then?

Was your buoyancy absolutely PERFECT on your first Open water dives after your certification?

It isn't about perfection. It's about having a solid foundation in the basic essential skills that the new diver can build on. I see many divers who dive for years without improving. They just don't have anything to work with and they don't know enough to have a goal to work towords.

Did you learn everything you needed to know about diving from your OW class?

Do you think that in this rush, rush world that more people would be willing to take up scuba diving if the bar were raised as you are talking about, meaning that many more people would fail there diving course?

If shop A were offering a dive course that involved two weekends to get certified, and shop B offered one (at the same price, mind you) that required 4 hours, one night a week, for seven weeks, plus a weekend for OW checkout. Which one would have most success in selling their program?

Good point and this, IMO, is a large part of the problem. The shops providing lousy classes are financially rewarded because they tell people what they want to hear. They are also allowed to issue the same card as an instructor who really teaches diving. I offer the phone number of a faster cheaper instructor to those who are looking for that.

 

[Epinephelus]

Genesis once bubbled...
Breathing (not mixing, USING!) Nitrox mixes under 40% require exactly two computations to be understood to be done safely.

1. How to compute the MOD...
2. How to compute the END

It's "Equivalent Air Depth" (EAD) you're looking for... "END" is typically the acronym for "Equivalent Narcotic Depth" - a different animal, mainly used by trimix/heliox divers.
E.

 

[Genesis]

fumble-fingered keying

Although "equivalent NITROGEN depth" (as in nitrogen uptake) works too, doesn't it?