#$%#$%@# Dive Training!

[Finnatic]

Buoyancy skills and proper weighting were practically non-existent in my OW class. I only know how important they are from reading this board. I'll be the disaster flailing around until I'm in the water enough to train myself. However, if you're OOA, I can help you, but only if on my knees on the bottom. I complained but was patronized ("you'll be fine, don't worry"). No help was offered as he was in too much of a hurry to drive the next batch of OW students through. 3 weeks since class ended and still waiting to go on the OW cert. dives. What a joke.

 

[Genesis]

Genesis -- did you offer her any advice what-so-ever on training before she took her class? I should think you would have been wise enough to know that a weekend class was going to have poor results. Why the hurry? I'm surpised you didn't talk her into taking her time with a long format class where she could get good training and pool time. Or is this one of those things where she wasn't listening to advice?

When faced with a den of evils, you choose the least of them.

This was the same shop where I did my training. Things had obviously changed. There are a couple of other choices in this area, and they are worse! She "drew" a different instructor however (the one who was originally supposed to teach the class was not the one she ended up having teach her class, and who both she and I understood would be teaching the class.) We both figured that out during the first day; when it happens, and they have your money, what are you supposed to do? You have to have some degree of trust that the quality will be there, as the alternative is to walk away from the investment entirely.

I was there when she signed up, I talked with the shop before money was exchanged, both of us were involved in the selection.

Bottom line - I'm as angry at myself as I am with the shop involved!

I still think that putting some real performance benchmarks in the standards as minimums (the instructor could still choose to exceed them) would help - a lot.

Oh well - into the ocean we will go this weekend!

 

[large_diver]

Intead of whining to all of us about the poor quality of OW training (which has already been debated ad nauseum here and elsewhere), why not go directly to the owner of the shop, describe your dissatisfaction, and ask that your g/f be given the opportunity to re-take the pool/OW sessions or simply work on her in water skills with another instructor?

 

[Genesis]

the problem gets addressed?

You think this is a "whine" when someone buys a thing and doesn't get what they paid for?

That's an interesting perspective.

(I disagree, as you might expect.)

 

[scubasean]

Genesis once bubbled...
the problem gets addressed?

You think this is a "whine" when someone buys a thing and doesn't get what they paid for?

That's an interesting perspective.

(I disagree, as you might expect.)

Since this has gone on four pages already, I may have missed this....

But, have you discussed this after the fact with the proper folks?

As for a new instructor being placed into the slot where you thought someone else would be teaching, it would have been entirely fine to leave the course, tell the shop owner to reschedule, and be happier....talking with the original instructor would have been appropriate, to find out his/her schedule.

Have you talked with them as much as you've discussed it here? At least that way, things might indeed get better, if only for your small corner of the diving realm.

Just curious.

Sean

 

[large_diver]

It's a whine when you spend so much time and energy expressing your outrage here to people WHO CAN'T DO ANYTHING TO HELP YOU.

As Sean says above -- the way to get your problem addressed is to go talk to the shop.

 

[learn-scuba]

Finnatic once bubbled...
Buoyancy skills and proper weighting were practically non-existent in my OW class. I only know how important they are from reading this board. I'll be the disaster flailing around until I'm in the water enough to train myself. However, if you're OOA, I can help you, but only if on my knees on the bottom. I complained but was patronized ("you'll be fine, don't worry"). No help was offered as he was in too much of a hurry to drive the next batch of OW students through. 3 weeks since class ended and still waiting to go on the OW cert. dives. What a joke.

Finnatic --

A few things:

first... is he the only instructor at the shop you're working through? If not, go to the shop owner and ask him to put you with a different instructor.

second... is there another shop in your area? If the first shop won't give you the satisfaction, go to another shop in the area and explain your problem to them. Ask if they'll help you out. You might get lucky and have them give you the course in order to win you as a customer.

third... if neither of the above works, ask your first instructor for a universal referral form signing you off on your pool work and academics. You can then take that anywhere in the world that recognizes the universal referral program to do your open water dives with a different instructor. Once you have an instructor on the hook to do your open water checkout, ask them to give you some time on buoyancy control and odds are they'll be happy to.

Just a few suggestions to help you out. And I'll make you an offer you probably can't use but I'll make it all the same... you figure out how to get down here to where I am for a vacation, I'll give you my course at no charge just to see you trained and happy diving.

 

[Genesis]

The trust has been violated; what else is there to resolve or fix?

As for walking out at the outset, how does a student judge when a sub like that is made? The other instructor might be even better than the person you know! You have no way to judge, and a student definitely has no way to judge.

The instant problem has to be solved by someone else, and that someone else will almost certainly be me. That's ok - its part of being with someone, and I have no objection to my role in it. This is particularly true since she knows how much fun it can be to dive, and how easy it can be - she's seen it, from the other side of a glass window. In fact, that's one of the dives she really wants to do, having seen me do it.

Hell, I love diving anyway, so its not really all that big a deal to take care of.

But I, and she, are the exception. Most people who get certified aren't going to have that available. If Joe off the street had this experience, they'd likely drop out after a couple of very frustrating dives, sensing that its "just too hard" - or worse, get hurt.

 

[ZenSquirrel]

Is a $100 or $200 training course that consists of 2 days in the pool and 2 days of cert dives supposed to make you an expert diver?

As I understand it, your girlfriend did not even realize that she had problem with her boyancy and trim after OW cert. I totally agree that this is bad.

But, I would say that 4 days of diving cannot make anybody a great diver. I think that courses like this have a place and part of that place is stressing to students that they are being taught enough to keep themselves alive under "normal" dive conditions. As long as students leaving a course like this are good enough to not kill themselves and know that they have skills that they need to work on then I have no problems with this format.

Some people are comfortable with learning the basics from an instructor and then refining their technique on their own. Some people are not. I think that 2 pool sessions with 2 days of diving is ok for the former. They will get the basics and then actively work to improve themselves. Some people are not comfortable with this and they should consider taking longer classes with more instructor time. This will be expensive but if you need the help then you should get it.

I was fortunate to have help finding a very good private instructor that gave me a very good rate. Lucky for me I was comfortable in the water and since it was just me I chose to get all my pool time and checkout dives in on the same weekend. There is no doubt in my mind that my skills would have benifited from taking more time during my checkouts but I also left my certification with no delusions that I was a good diver. When I was driving home with my signed temp C-card I thought, "Awesome, I'm certified. I can't wait to learn how to dive!"

To sum up, these courses have their place and part of their place is letting their students know that when they leave class they are still students. I think that the only "wrong" thing the shop did was not letting her know which skills she needed to work on.

ZenSquirrel, Dive scrub

(P.S. I was not there to see how much trouble she was having so I can't really gauge if the shop didn't even get her the basics. Which would be a HUGE problem in my book.)

 

[Jester]

You went to a "little-dove and little-known" dive site with a heavy silt bottom, armed with a video camera to take pictures of your newly certified girlfriend, and there just "happened" to be another person down there who not only was taking video of you, but then shared the results with the two of you?

Sounds suspiciously like a set-up.