#$%#$%@# Dive Training!

[Genesis]

We agree that safety IS the issue, though we disagree about what constitutes safe. Would you let a member of your family graduate from such a class and dive with another member of that same class? That is how OW training is billed.

That is EXACTLY the point.

OW training is indeed billed this way. The evidence is clear - the same agencies offer a "resort" course, which does NOT lead to you being "ok to go on your own"; quite to the contrary, you must remain under supervision.

The problem is that by no reasonable evaluation of ACTUAL performance of those certified is that standard met.

When you come to the realization that two people who you both care about have gone through this training, and had they believed the bluster, jumped on the local charter boat the day following certification, buddied up together and jumped in, one or both would have been VERY LIKELY to be seriously injured or worse, your eyes snap open.

At least mine did.

 

[TCDiver1]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...

What I see in the water every time out is pathetic. The bar has been lowered so far that I'm against calling it diving. It might be breathing underwater but it is NOT diving.

i gotta tell ya, i don't remember being required to do any skills mid-water in my OW class and that was 1979. For that reason i don't agree with the whole dumbing down thing. Unless of course you guys think it was dumbed down back then too. Maybe it was, in which case i am dam lucky to still be taking air 800+ hours of bottom time later.

I do remember having my mask ripped off a lot mid-water and my air turned off a lot mid-water and doing a lot of push ups on the deck with gear on, etc. Thats just how my PADI Basic OW class was done. I'm not sure how productive or valuable that was except as stated above, i'm still taking air on land so i guess it worked.

You know i agree with you that some LDS's and instructors are cutting corners big time and possibly should not even be in the business. I see and compete with them too but i just don't think its that bad across the board in the industry. Not from my experience anyway.

It's been a couple months since i said that in here .... just had to remind you guys i'm still here.

 

[jbichsel]

divermasterB once bubbled...


Yet the agency that you are an AI with, keeps lowering the bar.

But I don't.

 

[MikeFerrara]

gedunk once bubbled...


i gotta tell ya, i don't remember being required to do any skills mid-water in my OW class and that was 1979. For that reason i don't agree with the whole dumbing down thing. Unless of course you guys think it was dumbed down back then too. Maybe it was, in which case i am dam lucky to still be taking air 800+ hours of bottom time later.

I do remember having my mask ripped off a lot mid-water and my air turned off a lot mid-water and doing a lot of push ups on the deck with gear on, etc. Thats just how my PADI Basic OW class was done. I'm not sure how productive or valuable that was except as stated above, i'm still taking air on land so i guess it worked.

You know i agree with you that some LDS's and instructors are cutting corners big time and possibly should not even be in the business. I see and compete with them too but i just don't think its that bad across the board in the industry. Not from my experience anyway.

It's been a couple months since i said that in here .... just had to remind you guys i'm still here.

Glad you're still here. I have to get up and dive where you do. Maybe it would improve my outlook. I saw some real sites down in Florida last week. I thought I was in the midst of a bunch of hard-hat divers because every one was on the bottom.

I don't think I had the chance to tell you about how the women at Gilboa the week before hit the surface screaming or how upset her little 3 ft tall (I don't know how old but really young) son who was diving with her was.

The teaching of good technique isn't something that's gone away. It was never here in my opinion. Diving is still tought the way it was before the invention of the BC. You had no choice but to sit on the bottom then. Now we have a choice and we still sit. LOL. They have done away with the push-ups though. It's a good thing too. How many divers do you see who could do one?

 

[SubMariner]

THIS THREAD NEEDS TO COOL DOWN.

A couple of you are becoming downright nasty.

Just a reminder from one of your friendly neighbourhood Regulators.

 

[The Chairman]

and we will unlock it in a day or so... Move along folks, nothing to see here....

 

[The Chairman]

y'all be nice now, y'hear?

 

[redacted]

Does anyone understand why this thread was regulated as it was? I'm trying to understand the censorship, manipulation, and boundries associated with this board. It is not that I object to such actions, when appropriate. But I find it easier to take when I understand the reasons.

Were any messages deleted? What was their offense?

Thanks

 

[diverbrian]

The thread was regulated in that manner to allow tempers to cool. Some of the wording was getting a bit personal and the regulators didn't want to be forced to delete posts. I have been following the thread and didn't see where anything got deleted and to be honest it was a lively debate.

But, when the comments start getting pointed at posters instead of just their views (which, face it, we all have different views), it actually isn't as much fun. And the other thing is that posters who normally are pretty composed were acting in this manner. I am guilty of this too. If I feel personally attacked in words, I WILL counterattack. It gets worse with each exchange and then the regulators are fighting a full forest fire instead of a small brush fire. When I chair meetings at work, I will shut down conversation on a topic for the same reason. It's not because anybody did anything wrong, but because I see the "writing on the wall" and know where it is headed if there isn't some "cool down time" on the topic.

 

[The Chairman]

1) When we start getting "Report this Post to a moderator" messages we take a closer look.

2) There was more than one moderator who was alarmed at the "tenor" of this thread.

3) Posts were indeed pulled... usually the offending parties are informed specifically why. I did not pull those posts and so can not answer as to whether the various involved parties were so informed.

4) Allowing a day to cool off (which was only extended due to the board being down) is the easiest way to do this. It is usually a GREAT idea to read, re-read and then wait an hour before posting a hostile thread. No, I don't always follow my own advice, but I try.

5) There are only a few moderators compared to the magnitude of the new messages on the board. NONE of us are paid. Consequently, we sometimes have to do things expediently which may not always be the fairest. It is IMPOSSIBLE to please everyone... I do try to be as fair as possible.

6) In order to NOT hi-jack this thread any further, I would appreciate any further discussion about moderation to be in a new thread under site management and support, or you can PM me (or any other moderator) directly. If I don't answer in that thread, please PM me about it as will have been an oversight.

7) Y'all have a great day.