Dive training question: ground work?

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Anthony Hayes

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In skydive training we do a boat load of ground work before we are even allowed anywhere near an airplane.

Why is it that, in scuba training, we do very little, if any, ground work prior to getting wet?
 
In skydive training we do a boat load of ground work before we are even allowed anywhere near an airplane.

Why is it that, in scuba training, we do very little, if any, ground work prior to getting wet?

It's largely a marketing thing, but also speaks to adult learning principles. (Plus, one obvious thing.)

Marketing: Get people in the water as soon as possible, since that's what they've signed up for. Get them excited and interested. Additionally, in resort locations you're dealing with students who have paid a lot of money to travel somewhere with bright sun, clear water, and pretty fishies. Telling them that you're going to spend several days in a classroom before taking them diving will NOT go over very well.

Adult learning principles: Putting things that you just learned in the classroom/academics to practical use as soon as possible after the academic session enhances learning.

Lastly - although people like to make the comparison between scuba diving and sky diving, the two have absolutely nothing in common. Specific to scuba training, it's very easy to work your way into actually doing skills in the water - initial/simple skills in confined water, more advanced skills in confined and open water, and ultimately putting them altogether in open water. You can't do this in skydiving.

"OK, today we're going to go up and learn how to jump out of the plane. Tomorrow... we'll learn how to open the parachute."

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I think the attrition rate would be unacceptably high.

:d
 
In the addition to RJP comment about the pool you are able to get the student comfortable being underwater performing these skills before the actual open water so by that time they will less nervous, also a good instructor will work with their students until they are comfortable performing a skill underwater. Also in open water if a student has problems completing a skill they can repeat the skill and have the skill re shown by the instructor if needed and as long as it is a good competent instructor able to calm a student in a panic situation they can just be brought directly to the surface. Also if a student decides they are not comfortable at all they can resurface at any time, with sky diving once you are put of the plane door their is no going back up into the aircraft.

And yes with PADI it is all about getting you in the water as quickly as possible following the standards in place so you can start to enjoy your new found venture, for open water this is getting you in the pool as soon as possible to keep you interested and enjoy the learning experience.
 
Well, the first thing that struck me is that there is no skydiving equivalent of the shallow end of the pool!

We do prefer it if students have begun their academics before doing their first pool session, because it's a little easier if they have at least the beginning of an understanding of Boyle's law. But I have done Discover Scuba sessions with folks who knew absolutely nothing about diving before coming to the pool, and a quick explanation and demonstration seems to suffice for the work in shallow water.
 
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if you compare to skydiving, you have to factor in the training style done if they have access to a wind tunnel first. Without a wind tunnel they are very different, and would be comparable to teaching scuba diving if the only water you had access to was 150ft down and there was no pools or shallow confined water to train in.

When you add wind tunnels to sky diving, they give you a quick down and dirty of how to not die, then let you play in the wind tunnels for quite a while to "figure it out". Then a bit more discussion on how not to die when you actually jump out of the plane and how to land safely, then you do it. Comparable to how to make the adjustment from diving in a pool where something going wrong is highly unlikely, to doing your OWT on a charter boat.

Scuba is also a tiered sport where as skydiving is pretty much, your ass is jumping out of a plane. Doesn't particularly matter if it's at 6000ft with an almost immediate deployment of the chute for training dives, or 18000ft, once that chute is open it is all the same dive and you're going 115mph assuming belly down position prior to deploying that chute regardless of how high you are *no halo jumping, but even that is pretty standard once you get below 15k feet, just have to deal with low O2 and some other things*.
Scuba is much more variable where you can have a nice pretty 30 ft reef dive where not a whole lot can go wrong and you might as well be in a pool, or you can be doing a drift dive or 120ft wreck dive in high current. Very different atmospheres. The agencies have dumped the courses down to basically be for 30ft reef diving, which is why the training/briefing is comparable to that of indoor skydiving.

Once you get into "real diving" the on deck discussions get a lot more intense and the land training gets a lot more intense. Cave training has lectures every night and land drills almost every day. Since the diving industry is out to make money, if they did that at recreational levels, there would be a lot less people diving because it removes the instant satisfaction of the sport which is what PADI and the Dive Shops are banking on, get them in, steal all of their money, spit them out, start over. Skydiving has a much higher retention rate, but a lot lower certification rate. This is what diving was 30+ years ago, but not anymore.

PADI started certifying in 1967. It took them until 1982 to certify the amount of divers that it certified in 2013 *right under 1m*. It took them until the end of 1991 to certify the amount of divers they certified in the 4 year period from 2010-2013. They certified in the last 4 years, the same amount of divers they certified in the first 25 years of the organization. They currently represent a 50% marketshare in the industry certifying almost 1m new members each year and have pumped out over 22 million certifications since 1967. There are not currently 22 million active divers in the world.

Not sure about skydiving, I work with DoD for chute design but not in the recreational sector. Looking at USPA, they average right around 35k memberships/year for the last 5 years, but it's not up much from the 30k ish/year starting in 1990. Granted it's double that from the 70's and 80's, but scuba followed a similar trend just on a different order of magnitude. With membership that low, they have a much higher retention percentage and much more dedicated people. Think of how many skydivers you know and how many of them dive regularly. People will get certified on scuba, take maybe one trip per year, most of the time it is less than that. You can't do that in skydiving because it is much more dangerous than easy recreational scuba diving is despite having lower fatality rates.


Sorry for the long winded posts, but while scuba used to be a fairly decent comparison to skydiving back in the 60's-80's, recreational diving needs to be compared to indoor skydiving now while technical diving is a more fair comparison to actual skydiving.
 
I agree with the marketing comments and the getting everyone in the water quickly for instant gratification idea. As far as most people taking scuba know how to swim, that gets into the old debate about what knowing how to swim means. I do think that some that sign up for OW course lack basic water experience. These aren't using common sense in jumping right into scuba. To compare, do other things to overcome a fear of heights/flying before thinking about skydiving.
 
Well, the first thing that struck me is that there is no skydiving equivalent of the shallow end of the pool!


You have neveer been to Ft Benning, GA


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You have neveer been to Ft Benning, GA

Or taken a tandem sky diving jump... You go from class to jump in less than 1 hour.
Even discover scuba takes longer than that!
 

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