Dive Team Accident

[ronski101]

Weightbelts are still more foolproof than integrated especially with gloves on. QUOTE]

Do you have some unknown data on this or is this just your opinion?? I have and still use either or both belt and or weight integrated and both have pros and cons. So I have no agenda either way but when someone brings up a contraversy that has nothing to do with the event I have to wonder. Dropping weight is very important but I see no reason to think in this instance a belt would of made a difference. We dont even know that he tried to release his weights. It all has to do with training. I have seen just as many weight belts slide down the torso and caught by the ankle or fallen to the bottom as i have seen weights fall out of the BCD and these people end up on the surface. Taking the elevator to the surface can be just as deadly as not releasing weights. If you perfer belt and its easier for you to release, for whatever reason thats fine, but this is a training or panic issue and I believe belt vs integrated is a unconsiquential point.

Based upon experience using both integrated and belt I find a weight belt safer cuz you only need one hand to drop it and if you need to get out of your rig you won't float like a cork to the surface. I did not bring up any controversy about the BCD but did comment based upon the multitude of posts talking about the failure of the BCD weight dumping system but as I said in a previous post, the weight dropping was most likely a secondary issue since the guy apparently was unable to get enough air and refused offered air. Gee, I guess I touched on a sore spot didn't I?

 

[ahava]

Based upon experience using both integrated and belt I find a weight belt safer cuz you only need one hand to drop it but as I said in a previous post, the weight dropping was most likely a secondary issue since the guy apparently was unable to get enough air and refused offered air. Gee, I guess I touched on a sore spot didn't I?

No sore spot at all. I'm not pushing either way. I have and still use either or both. BTW the Zeagle ripcord system requires only one hand.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Based upon experience using both integrated and belt I find a weight belt safer cuz you only need one hand to drop it and if you need to get out of your rig you won't float like a cork to the surface. I did not bring up any controversy about the BCD but did comment based upon the multitude of posts talking about the failure of the BCD weight dumping system but as I said in a previous post, the weight dropping was most likely a secondary issue since the guy apparently was unable to get enough air and refused offered air. Gee, I guess I touched on a sore spot didn't I?

Ahava beat me to it, the Zeagle system is a one-handed release. Unless modified (as is likely here with all 12 behaving the same) it is no more difficult than a belt. You also have easy access to the access zipper to pull the weights out manually. BTW: I can modify a belt to not release just as I could modify an integrated system not to release as intended. The simplest way would be to to place a crotch strap over the belt. This can be done on accident or on purpose, same results, the belt drops a couple of feet, out of reach until you release the harness.

I do agree with you, having all your weight on your rig makes ditching/donning you rig underwater much more difficult. I would also agree that many of the other integrated systems out there are probe to premature / unexpected release of weights. Both of these issue combined with trim issues long ago steered me away from integrated weights in cold water, but none of these factors are reported to be an issue here.

You did touch a sore spot, just not the one you think. The sore spot (for me) is blaming gear for multiple operator issues and poor judgement.

 

[ronski101]

Ahava beat me to it, the Zeagle system is a one-handed release. Unless modified (as is likely here with all 12 behaving the same) it is no more difficult than a belt. You also have easy access to the access zipper to pull the weights out manually. BTW: I can modify a belt to not release just as I could modify an integrated system not to release as intended. The simplest way would be to to place a crotch strap over the belt. This can be done on accident or on purpose, same results, the belt drops a couple of feet, out of reach until you release the harness.

I do agree with you, having all your weight on your rig makes ditching/donning you rig underwater much more difficult. I would also agree that many of the other integrated systems out there are probe to premature / unexpected release of weights. Both of these issue combined with trim issues long ago steered me away from integrated weights in cold water, but none of these factors are reported to be an issue here.

You did touch a sore spot, just not the one you think. The sore spot (for me) is blaming gear for multiple operator issues and poor judgement.

Most accidents be they scuba or other situations usually have a number of things that contribute to them. This case has already been flogged enough but it a perfect example of a whole bunch of stuff being and going wrong the least of which was the BCD. I don't know why there were so many comments on the BCD when there were all these numerous other more important factors involved. I have used a number of integrated BCD's but they all required removing weights out of two separate areas or sides but then again I have never used a Zeagle which is the only one that I know of that has a one handed release system. I prefer a combination of belt and trim weights so even if I gotta ditch the belt I won't shoot to the surface.

 

[Capt.Gene]

Most accidents be they scuba or other situations usually have a number of things that contribute to them. This case has already been flogged enough but it a perfect example of a whole bunch of stuff being and going wrong the least of which was the BCD. I don't know why there were so many comments on the BCD when there were all these numerous other more important factors involved. I have used a number of integrated BCD's but they all required removing weights out of two separate areas or sides but then again I have never used a Zeagle which is the only one that I know of that has a one handed release system. I prefer a combination of belt and trim weights so even if I gotta ditch the belt I won't shoot to the surface.

The weight belt is the only piece of gear you can wear by itself that can result in your death. As proven in Tarpon Springs when a firefighter went overboard a few years ago and was found wearing his belt. The rest of his gear still on the boat.
The weight belt itself often moves during the dive. If the buckle isn't where you expect it to be at the instant you need it in your hand , is it shifted right or is it left? Times up.
Is it totally obstructed by other gear? Is it fouled by a crotch strap? Is it on backward? Instructors stress on these issues.
I'm not buying into any of the "weight belt is safer" stuff. Nonsense.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

The weight belt is the only piece of gear you can wear by itself that can result in your death. As proven in Tarpon Springs when a firefighter went overboard a few years ago and was found wearing his belt. The rest of his gear still on the boat.
The weight belt itself often moves during the dive. If the buckle isn't where you expect it to be at the instant you need it in your hand , is it shifted right or is it left? Times up.
Is it totally obstructed by other gear? Is it fouled by a crotch strap? Is it on backward? Instructors stress on these issues.
I'm not buying into any of the "weight belt is safer" stuff. Nonsense.

If people wear a weightbelt while walking around on a boat and fall in the water and drown.. well that is just stupid...Incidentally, I used to see tourists do it all the time on the boat and while wearing dive boots. I would caution them about it, and you could tell by their reaction, they had forgotten they were wearing it and almost certainly would not remember to ditch in should they go splash. So I agree, a weight belt could be dangerous if used in the wrong circumstances.

As for weight belts moving around... I'm not buying that at all. If people use the proper weight belt it will not be shifting around. A weight belt has one release to ditch lead, the zeagle BC requires the user to deploy two separate releases... right? Two releases are safer than one?

 

[Hawkwood]

I... the zeagle BC requires the user to deploy two separate releases... right? ...

All the Zeagle BCs that we sell only have one release. All the Zeagle BCs we rent and provide to students only have one release. Not only that, the release is set up for right hand release.

Unless you are referring to trim pouches on the back along the tank.

Bill

 

[dumpsterDiver]

All the Zeagle BCs that we sell only have one release. All the Zeagle BCs we rent and provide to students only have one release. Not only that, the release is set up for right hand release.

Unless you are referring to trim pouches on the back along the tank.

Bill

Well then maybe I am wrong the zeagle I had had red handles on each side attached to weed wacker line to ditch lead on each side...

 

[Hawkwood]

All the current Zeagle rip-chords are single point release. One long cord reaches to the left side and a short cord for the right side - both cords attached to the single handle on the right. Only takes a pull of about 8" (more or less) to release both sides.

Bill

 

[ronski101]

I am so ashamed I can't keep myself from commenting on some of this recent stuff but I am retired and it is raining here in LA and I am bored.
Since I inadvertently and innocently ruffled some integrated/Zeagle supporters I just gotta wonder why they would have designed a system that dumps all your dumpable weight at once vs the majority of integrated systems that allow you to dump one side at a time? I have visions of imitating that nuke sub off Hawaii a few years back that sank a long range wooded fishing boat as it breached the surface like a launched polaris ICBM. By the way, I am left handed so I gotta learn how to use my camera holding hand to release weight. And this is supposed to be as safe or safer than a weight belt that can be dropped upside down at night in a down current if necessary? Gotta get a life huh?