Dive Team Accident

[Wern Yi]

I wish to thank Hatul for starting this thread and everyone else who have contributed. Like all of you I am saddened by the death of the Officer. I am what you might call a 'returnee' to the society of divers after a 12 or so years hiatus from the sport. I just bought myself a Zeagle Scout BC and a pair of Mares Superchannel fin to go with the other remnants of my older gear. All this in preparation for my re-entry in 2 weeks time. I had not put any thought into testing my new gear (i use to dive with a jacket BC) or old, thinking i can do a bit of a 'refresher' on the trip itself and the rest will hold up. Now having read all what you gentlemen have written about safety, testing and preparations, I have screwed my head back on properly and will now sign up for a proper refresher course with all my new gear. Again, I thank all of you for your time and your common-sense advice.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

40 lbs of lead is clearly over the capacity of the Ranger which has a wing of only 44lb lift. The wing has to lift the lead, full tank and regs. Does anyone know if the BC has a weight pocket limit printed someone on the BC?

I believe that the 44lb wing is the standard for the Ranger. They are modular in nature, you can order different sizes, just as you can with most of their BCDs.

The published capacity for the weight system is 30lbs in the front (zip cord) pockets and 20lbs in the trim pockets (which are velco tab released). I doubt anyone intended that to indicate 50lbs of lead would be a good idea, but rather it gives the diver options to move the weight around to achieve optimal trim.

Based on the published reports and poor judgement used, I would not make any conclusions as to where the weights were actually located and even if the 40lbs is accurate or just a round number tossed out there by the media and repeated. The old saying Garbage In = Garbage Out applies to these 2nd, 3rd and 4th hand reports.

 

[Hatul]

I believe that the 44lb wing is the standard for the Ranger. They are modular in nature, you can order different sizes, just as you can with most of their BCDs.

The published capacity for the weight system is 30lbs in the front (zip cord) pockets and 20lbs in the trim pockets (which are velco tab released). I doubt anyone intended that to indicate 50lbs of lead would be a good idea, but rather it gives the diver options to move the weight around to achieve optimal trim.

Based on the published reports and poor judgement used, I would not make any conclusions as to where the weights were actually located and even if the 40lbs is accurate or just a round number tossed out there by the media and repeated. The old saying Garbage In = Garbage Out applies to these 2nd, 3rd and 4th hand reports.

Now the reason the 2nd and higher reports have been garbage is that the 1st hand reports have been garbage or lacking. I'm no investigator but I'm sure I could come up with a better assessment of what went wrong in the accident if I could examine the gear and interview those involved.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Now the reason the 2nd and higher reports have been garbage is that the 1st hand reports have been garbage or lacking. I'm no investigator but I'm sure I could come up with a better assessment of what went wrong in the accident if I could examine the gear and interview those involved.

I sure you could, not saying much though as the average 5th grader could do a better job than the media has and of course there is plenty of CYA going on with the local officials.

We have a similar incident locally. A women claims to have been bitten by a brown recluse spider at the local airport 6 months ago. There is no local record of any spider bite and was not reported to the airport or any local medial personal. It may or may not have happened but something did happen, at least someplace. I am at the airport every single week of the year and have never seen a spider there, but strange things can happen.

In the last few weeks, the story has been passed along between both national media outlets like ABC and dozens of local media "B" teams. Depending on who's report, the women died, she lived but lost her ear, she recovered, she might never have been bitten, she was in agony for weeks, she was infected with MRSA not a spider bite, the spiders are invading the southwest, its all caused by global climate change, etc... Whatever truth there was is now lost.

 

[ronski101]

I just have to wonder if the guy would have made it if he was wearing a weight belt instead of integrated.

 

[ahava]

I just have to wonder if the guy would have made it if he was wearing a weight belt instead of integrated.

You really seem to be pushing the weight belt vs integrated issue (your last 2 posts on this thread are about it) Ok, so I will play along. So now he has a weight belt on ,instead of integrated, and goes to release it and it doesn't fall because it is trapped under the cumberbun belt of the BCD. Now with all the mistakes that seem to of been made this could be a possibility. Now people are saying if he had integrated weights this might not of happened. So instead of analyzing the accident we now have the BCD vs Integrated contraversy AGAIN !!!!

 

[ronski101]

You really seem to be pushing the weight belt vs integrated issue (your last 2 posts on this thread are about it) Ok, so I will play along. So now he has a weight belt on ,instead of integrated, and goes to release it and it doesn't fall because it is trapped under the cumberbun belt of the BCD. Now with all the mistakes that seem to of been made this could be a possibility. Now people are saying if he had integrated weights this might not of happened. So instead of analyzing the accident we now have the BCD vs Integrated contraversy AGAIN !!!!

I don't think there is enough info to be able to make a valid analysis of this accident only guesses. If I were having trouble breathing or OOA I would greatly prefer a weight belt over integrated since it is more fool proof even with gloves on. I did not know there was a BCD vs integrated controversy (did you mean weight belt vs integrated BCD?) on Scubaboard however, the old saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it" seems to apply here unless of course you are selling BCD's. The weight ditching problem is most likely secondary to the fact that the guy was having trouble breathing or OOA and refused secondary air. We are all only one breath away from dying while engaging in this sport. I would rather be diving too. Philippines in April can't wait.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

I don't think there is enough info to be able to make a valid analysis of this accident only guesses.

Yup!

If I were having trouble breathing or OOA I would greatly prefer a weight belt over integrated since it is more fool proof even with gloves on.

If you feel more comfortable with a belt, knock yourself out. No one mentioned he had problems manipulating the release and certainy when they tested the 12 others topside they did not report that type of problem. They merely stated the failed to release when tested which would indicate the systems were modified not to release.

Dropping weights for OOA is pretty much a Hail Mary anyway. A direct ascent or CESA is recommended, neither involves droping lead.

I did not know there was a BCD vs integrated controversy (did you mean weight belt vs integrated BCD?) on Scubaboard however, the old saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it" seems to apply here unless of course you are selling BCD's.

He's not the first poster to get his words twisted.

The weight ditching problem is most likely secondary to the fact that the guy was having trouble breathing or OOA and refused secondary air.

So why are you wondering about if he would have survive with a weight belt? Its like asking would he have survived with a spare air?

We are all only one breath away from dying while engaging in this sport.

If you truly feel you are this close to dying while diving, its time to reevaluate your diving hobby.

 

[Ayisha]

Dropping weights for OOA is pretty much a Hail Mary anyway. A direct ascent or CESA is recommended, neither involves droping lead.

I think people were referring to when the victim was on the surface saying he couldn't breathe - before he dropped down. Establishing buoyancy on the surface could have helped greatly.

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

These guys, to be in standard, carry 2 cutting devices.....some carry more. If it was that bad, it should have been cut off....regardless of ANYTHING else. I assume, like all of our greatest FD and PD teams, the diver continued to try and fix a problem before he really knew how bad the situation was. He probably didn't want to give up and just cut loose. My guess is he didn't really see the full reality of where his last breathes were....and assumed he could fix the problem.

In an effort to learn from this tragic accident, let's keep this going in good light and no mud slinging...hasn't happened yet, but can easily start.

RIP