Dive Team Accident

[wtcreaux]

These guys, to be in standard, carry 2 cutting devices.....some carry more. If it was that bad, it should have been cut off....regardless of ANYTHING else. I assume, like all of our greatest FD and PD teams, the diver continued to try and fix a problem before he really knew how bad the situation was. He probably didn't want to give up and just cut loose. My guess is he didn't really see the full reality of where his last breathes were....and assumed he could fix the problem.

In firefighting, there was a problem with firefighters dying from OOA after being trapped (or entangled) or lost. What did we do??? TRAINING - we built a specific scenario where the FF was GOING to get entangled (the instructors made sure of it). It was utterly amazing the number of guys (myself included) who spent all of their air trying to get free. The take-home lesson the instructors WANTED us to learn - try for few SECONDS only to disentangle, then CALL FOR HELP. Once we started doing this, NO ONE ran out of air and finished the course with plenty to spare.

Take home lesson - RECOGNIZE YOUR IN TROUBLE AND NOTIFY YOUR BUDDY.

 

[ronski101]

Yup!



If you feel more comfortable with a belt, knock yourself out. No one mentioned he had problems manipulating the release and certainy when they tested the 12 others topside they did not report that type of problem. They merely stated the failed to release when tested which would indicate the systems were modified not to release.

Dropping weights for OOA is pretty much a Hail Mary anyway. A direct ascent or CESA is recommended, neither involves droping lead.



He's not the first poster to get his words twisted.



So why are you wondering about if he would have survive with a weight belt? Its like asking would he have survived with a spare air?



If you truly feel you are this close to dying while diving, its time to reevaluate your diving hobby.

Sigh.....if he didn't have trouble manipulating the weight release why didn't he release his weights. Panic? Inexperience? Unfamiliarity with equip? We are guessing here arn't we? Weightbelts are still more foolproof than integrated especially with gloves on. At least you got a chance if you dump weight but when you don't get that breath you need NOW, you only got seconds prior to full blown panic. Depending upon depth, dropping weights is not a surefire panacea.
One breath away from death is valid on the surface too just try missing one. This sport unlike other very dangerous sports lulls people into complacency where they can continually get away with risky behavior and it becomes the norm. You gotta plan for the unexpected. It is all about risk management which is based upon situation awareness, training, experience, etc. Anyone who is unaware of or ignores the inherent risks of this sport is just an accident waiting to happen. Oooh, ooh look at all the purty fish in the warm clear water, wish my cumputer would stop beeping at me..........guess I am just a chicken huh?

 

[flots am]

Depending upon depth, dropping weights is not a surefire panacea.

Ditching weighs is extremely safe when there is minimal gas loading and is reasonably safe at any depth/time combination listed on a recreational no-deco table.

Assuming a normal configuration where ditching weights makes the diver positively buoyant, and assuming that the diver didn't hold his/her breath on the way up, ditching weights ensures that the diver will arrive at the surface and stay there, which dramatically decreases the chances of drowining and makes rescue much easier.

flots.

 

[ahava]

Weightbelts are still more foolproof than integrated especially with gloves on. QUOTE]

Do you have some unknown data on this or is this just your opinion?? I have and still use either or both belt and or weight integrated and both have pros and cons. So I have no agenda either way but when someone brings up a contraversy that has nothing to do with the event I have to wonder. Dropping weight is very important but I see no reason to think in this instance a belt would of made a difference. We dont even know that he tried to release his weights. It all has to do with training. I have seen just as many weight belts slide down the torso and caught by the ankle or fallen to the bottom as i have seen weights fall out of the BCD and these people end up on the surface. Taking the elevator to the surface can be just as deadly as not releasing weights. If you perfer belt and its easier for you to release, for whatever reason thats fine, but this is a training or panic issue and I believe belt vs integrated is a unconsiquential point.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

I think we should be looking beyond gear choice in this particular incident.
That's the main reason I was so disappointed with the police official's analysis of the dive accident.

The diver made it to the surface, but could only remain there with the help of his buddy. At that point, both divers should have recognized buddy separation would be disastrous. The solution was for the victim to establish positive buoyancy (independent of his buddy). They seemed to have recognized this. Here were their options:
Option #1: Inflate BCD and/or drysuit. The victim's BCD could not be inflated.
Option #2: Ditch weight. The victim could not ditch weight from his weight-integrated BCD.
Option #3: If the weight is attached to the BCD, ditch the rig and one's exposure suit will provide ample positive buoyancy. Neither the victim nor the buddy even considered doing this.

If the diver had thought to ditch his rig, he'd be alive today.

 

[sydney-diver]

I think we should be looking beyond gear choice in this particular incident.
That's the main reason I was so disappointed with the police official's analysis of the dive accident.

The diver made it to the surface, but could only remain there with the help of his buddy. At that point, both divers should have recognized buddy separation would be disastrous. The solution was for the victim to establish positive buoyancy (independent of his buddy). They seemed to have recognized this. Here were their options:
Option #1: Inflate BCD and/or drysuit. The victim's BCD could not be inflated.
Option #2: Ditch weight. The victim could not ditch weight from his weight-integrated BCD.
Option #3: If the weight is attached to the BCD, ditch the rig and one's exposure suit will provide ample positive buoyancy. Neither the victim nor the buddy even considered doing this.

If the diver had thought to ditch his rig, he'd be alive today.

I thought the deflator button was missing but the BCD could still be deflated using the secondary release hence why the dive wasnt called (or am I misunderstanding)? If this is the case even if OOA the BCD could still be orally inflated preventing the diver from sinking when being towed?

 

[Bubbletrubble]

I thought the deflator button was missing but the BCD could still be deflated using the secondary release hence why the dive wasnt called (or am I misunderstanding)? If this is the case even if OOA the BCD could still be orally inflated preventing the diver from sinking when being towed?

Accounts of the incident state that the diver attempted to orally inflate the BCD but was unsuccessful.
As you know, with the typical power inflater, one must depress the exhaust button and exhale into the mouthpiece in order to inflate a BCD orally. Thus, unsuccessful oral inflation may have been attributable to a missing or nonfunctional exhaust button.
I have to admit that this is a rather unusual failure mode for the typical power inflater. It implies that whoever did the "repair" on the inflater (prior to the fateful dive) didn't know what he was doing.

 

[sydney-diver]

Accounts of the incident state that the diver attempted to orally inflate the BCD but was unsuccessful.
As you know, with the typical power inflater, one must depress the exhaust button and exhale into the mouthpiece in order to inflate a BCD orally. Thus, unsuccessful oral inflation may have been attributable to a missing or nonfunctional exhaust button.
I have to admit that this is a rather unusual failure mode for the typical power inflater. It implies that whoever did the "repair" on the inflater (prior to the fateful dive) didn't know what he was doing.

Good point, forgot that the inflator button needs to be depressed. I guess that's one of the issues here, not fully understanding/dismissing the potential consequences of this particular failure mode.

 

[Ayisha]

Yes, I believe the BC was not holding air, so no method of inflation would have worked. The victim may have spent most of his air throughout the dive trying to inflate the BC repeatedly as it deflated.

I had an inflator hose fall off three times three different years after service in the water. The BC was just in for maintenance and had nothing wrong with it before the service. The first time was towards the end of the first dive and I caught the hose but the o-ring fell in the silty water. I lost the second dive. The second time I jumped in for the first dive and it started bubbling like crazy and my buddy caught the hose, again no o-ring. I lost two dives that day. Both those times, since I was not over-weighted, I was able to remain at the surface with a BC that did not hold air until I got back to the shore or onto the boat. The third time, at the beginning of the first dive, the inflator hose had almost unscrewed itself and started bubbling and was put back together. I was pretty much a newbie then and it was all prior to me reading Scubaboard. I learned at some point to make sure that I checked the tightness of all the areas that could be tightened and always do a pre-dive check. I used to just inflate and deflate right away, but I eventually started to wait before deflating in case there was a slow leak. I started carrying the specific o-rings for all my gear just in case. After the mouthpiece on my reg fell off twice after service while diving, I switched to another shop for my service. I certainly thought that if my equipment was serviced by an apparent professional, that it should be perfect, but that is not the case.

We all need to be pro-active and check our equipment ourselves and make decisions accordingly. It was suggested to me to do the dive anyway the first two times and just keep inflating, but an instructor nixed that idea right away. I was disappointed to lose the dives, but it was the safest decision to make. Sometimes we have to make tough decisions and lose out on a dive or two, but that's why they say "live to dive another day".

 

[flots am]

I think we should be looking beyond gear choice in this particular incident.
That's the main reason I was so disappointed with the police official's analysis of the dive accident.

The diver made it to the surface, but could only remain there with the help of his buddy. At that point, both divers should have recognized buddy separation would be disastrous. The solution was for the victim to establish positive buoyancy (independent of his buddy). They seemed to have recognized this. Here were their options:
Option #1: Inflate BCD and/or drysuit. The victim's BCD could not be inflated.
Option #2: Ditch weight. The victim could not ditch weight from his weight-integrated BCD.
Option #3: If the weight is attached to the BCD, ditch the rig and one's exposure suit will provide ample positive buoyancy. Neither the victim nor the buddy even considered doing this.

If the diver had thought to ditch his rig, he'd be alive today.

When Schock surfaced in the lake, he told his team partner he couldn't breathe, Wright said in a statement Tuesday. The partner tried to give Schock a respirator, but he pushed the device away and went back under water,

Without trying too hard to throw the buddy under a bus, when someone surfaces in distress, you have to assume that the brown stuff is going to hit the fan at any moment. I'm not sure why nothing was done to ensure positive buoyancy, whether it was ditching weights, ditching everything, or inflating the hell out of the rescuer's BC and grabbing the victim until things could be sorted out.

flots.