Dive shops that cert through several agencies?

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Treebeard

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Hi everyone,

I am currently looking for a dive shop or instructor to do a refresher type course with. In my search I have come across a few places the will certify through multiple agencies;what is the impetus for this? What is the benefit for the dive shop? When provided with these options (assuming the instructor is good and the same for all the classes) how would you choose between the agencies? Thanks.
 
The answer to many of your questions is simple: It's a business decision and you will have to ask the shop to share their business model/plan with you to find the correct answer. As for which agency to choose, what are the choices?

Generally speaking at the basic open-water level, most agencies suffer similar short-comings and similar benefits.
 
Hi everyone,

I am currently looking for a dive shop or instructor to do a refresher type course with. In my search I have come across a few places the will certify through multiple agencies;what is the impetus for this? What is the benefit for the dive shop? When provided with these options (assuming the instructor is good and the same for all the classes) how would you choose between the agencies? Thanks.

Many shops assume they must be a PADI shop because of the huge global reach of PADI...the largest advertising exposure, so potentially the largest audience of new divers to target, or gain on referrals.
You might have a shop that goes with PADI, and then later adds NASE, because this allows them to keep the huge network of PADI, but now they have the option of using NASE when needed to cut wasteful course expenses---PADI forces the shop to charge a great deal of money for course materials most divers will Never LOOK AT AGAIN...whereas NASE lets them use pdf's for course material, so the diver only has to pay a light agency fee, and a fair fee to the instructor and shop---without the wasted money of the materials, this can save a huge amount of money for the student over the course of OW to an advanced level....and even make the very first course look far more attractive.

But the REAL issue for you as an individual that wants to take a dive course, is finding out "WHICH INSTRUCTOR" in your area, is the best instructor. This has nothing to do with Agency affiliation. You won't be able to figure out who is good or bad on your own---there are too many bad instructors, that are full of bs, and that are great at selling themselves as a gift to you from the gods....

You need to find good divers in your area, and ask as many of them as possible what Instructors they have witnessed teaching, and that they actually KNOW to be good teachers.

One HUGE question to ask...of the instructor, and to the friends you want advice from, is whether an instructor teaches much of the class on their knees and standing on the bottom--or, if after the 1st lesson, they remain in the mid water area, and do all skills neutrally buoyant, never again to be standing or kneeling on the bottom..... When you see an instructor that teaches by standing on the bottom, or kneeling--as their basic plan for most classes...this is someone to avoid....
 
We have an instructor at our LDS that is certified by multiple agencies. The only time I've heard the question come up was when a parent/child wanted to get certified and one agency would certify at a younger age than the other, so they chose to go through that one. Same instructor, same instruction, different certification.
 
In terms of the impetus for teaching through multiple agencies - there are a variety of reasons why a shop might do this. Most of my experienced is based in the tropical resort world where the major players are PADI and SSI, but this fairly simplified multi-agency concept (given that there are many more) exemplifies some of the reasons why a shop may choose to operate with multiple agencies.

Firstly - the two programs teach, fundamentally the same thing however SSI is more commonly marketed as a three day program and PADI as four. That's not always the case, but that speaks to the majority of programs in resorts. Therein lies one reason for different agencies - time involved in gaining a certification. Whether you agree or disagree with the concept here is entirely irrelevant - that's the way it is.
Secondly - as mentioned above, PADI is more expensive and it does require the students to purchase their own copy of the course material. Whilst some people may indeed never go back and read it again, I think they are missing out on material that is extremely well prepared and I strongly encourage all divers who possess a copy to go back and read the bits they might have missed. Nevertheless it adds significantly to the price of the course, and this is clearly a deciding factor for some.
Thirdly - Brand name and perception. PADI of course is the biggest, but as is clearly shown in many posts, some people don't like them and therefore seek an alternative, of which there are many: NAUI, NASE, BSAC, CMAS, whatever, people might want to choose a brand because of their individual perceptions of a particular agency. On the other hand, PADI is so huge that dive shop owners feel they might lose out if they *don't* have a PADI logo somewhere, even if their preference is to teach NAUI courses, for example.
Fourthly - Brand loyalty. Somebody who undertook entry level training with one agency is perfectly able to undertake further training with another, but many choose to stay with the brand with which they began. An SSI trained diver arriving in Thailand is more likely to look at a dual PADI/SSI store than an PADI only store, and vice versa. The same concept is true in many other walks of life - some people will only ever purchase a particular brand of motor vehicle because that's the first brand they bought, they liked it, and feel confident that purchasing the same brand again will be a good move, if not necessarily the best.

So already there's a few reasons.

In terms of finding a refresher - they're all going to do pretty much the same thing and they don't *have* to be taught under a particular agency. PADI market their "scuba review" but at some of the places I worked for we preferred to market an agency-independent "Refresher Course" to take into account the fact that our customers came from a wide variety of backgrounds.

And a final word: The OP is ripe for an agency bashing session - so let's keep it on topic and objective, please! :D

Cheers

C.
 
multiple agencies is partly due to how training is structured by way of agency standards and procedures. the bigger issue is often economics. a number of shops I know here will teach for a certain "P" agency ONLY if a student "requires" it. Their preferred agency is another agency that offers far better economic terms on training (and better insurance terms).


to echo Dan Volker however, I would strong agree that training is fundamentally about the instructor. A bad instructor is bad no matter what agency they are with.
to that point, I had a new OW student this weekend. I focus on buoyancy and trim control from the first 10 minutes in the pool. On our way back from a ocean training dive we passed an instructor from another agency with his students proudly kneeling on the bottom. When we surfaced my student hugged and told me I was awesome. he already looked better in the water than the instructor we saw. <sigh>.
 
My local dive club in Cyprus started off as CMAS, and still offers the full range of CMAS certifications up to Instructor. For people who are regular club members CMAS seems to be the way they still go. But about two years ago the dive club also started offering PADI courses when the chief instructor (CMAS) did her instructor conversion to PADI.

Now club regulars and locals tend to go the CMAS route, tourists and holidaymakers tend to opt for PADI, I guess because it is quicker and less involved than the way they do CMAS courses there. So for the dive club it was a purely commercial decision, being able to offer PADI to holidaymakers and tourists because that is what they want, and being able to offer CMAS to club regulars because that offers a more leisurely and perhaps slightly more thorough route. Phil.
 
For me it was a student driven decision. Students wanted classes I could not offer through SEI or CMAS. SDI/TDI allows me to meet those needs while maintaining a great deal of freedom as an instructor to use other materials and add to courses.
 
Thank you all for the insight. I just wanted to make sure that it was all above board. The guy at the dive shop was kind of pushing the SDI courses, but he also certs through NAUI and PADI. I didn't know if there was some reason for this that I should be aware of.
 

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