Rooster59
Contributor
For the 400 swim, you could mix in elementary backstroke. Don’t laugh, it’s a great stroke. Just don’t smash your head into the side of the pool.
Dive Master Training, Swim Test went back in class
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Keep in mind the tread can alternatively be a bob, float, or drown proof. (Google drown proofing; the history of the technique is interesting. ) I can't tread. I am, per my original OW instructor 33 years ago, a sinker. Can't do an egg beater kick at all. I was seriously fearing the tread test for DM until I realized the alternatives to treading worked for me.
With holding a lungful of air I can float with hands out of the water. Barely. That should allow a 5 on the test. Drown proofing is a fun way to kill the 13 minutes your hands aren't out of the water and takes very little effort.
I also was strategic on the 400 yd swim. I never swam competitively and hate flip turns. If I pushed hard, I might break 8 minutes. But I can take it really easy and get done under 10. I figured better to have gas in the tank for the other tests than kill myself for one test. On the 800 fin kick I put it all out.
The one thing I'd suggest is work on endurance in the water. Five years and 20 pounds ago I ran marathons. I tried a Sprint triathlon and realized all the fitness in running didn't stop me from gasping in the water when I tried to swim fast. I could swim forever slowly, but picking up the pace needed practice.
If you need a good time on the diver tow, I'd do the fin push and yell at the "victim" to get streamlined.
With holding a lungful of air I can float with hands out of the water. Barely. That should allow a 5 on the test. Drown proofing is a fun way to kill the 13 minutes your hands aren't out of the water and takes very little effort.
I also was strategic on the 400 yd swim. I never swam competitively and hate flip turns. If I pushed hard, I might break 8 minutes. But I can take it really easy and get done under 10. I figured better to have gas in the tank for the other tests than kill myself for one test. On the 800 fin kick I put it all out.
The one thing I'd suggest is work on endurance in the water. Five years and 20 pounds ago I ran marathons. I tried a Sprint triathlon and realized all the fitness in running didn't stop me from gasping in the water when I tried to swim fast. I could swim forever slowly, but picking up the pace needed practice.
If you need a good time on the diver tow, I'd do the fin push and yell at the "victim" to get streamlined.
Ken Kurtis
Contributor
Top of my head . . . San Diego as I recall, a few years ago. (Maybe even as many as 10.) Not sure if this is the incident or not, but this is from 2009:
San Diego Dive Fatality 9-29-09
- Ken
That's it. Thanks for finding it. Hard to believe it was that long ago.
You have to read all the way to the last pages to get to the actual facts in the case. Unfortunately, you will also see moderator comments about deleted posts. There were whole pages of posts deleted. The posts violated the rule against "blamestorming" in the A&I thread, because they sure do lay out the blame. As a moderator, I can see the deleted posts now, but you will not be able to. You will get enough information in the posts that remain to get the main idea, though. You will see a description of the DM's actions and a reference to his suicide, wich was my point.
Off topic--skimming through that entire thread was a real walk down memory lane. I saw many posts from former ScubaBoard regulars, including moderators, who no longer participate. More than a few were very valued members and are missed.
Yes, definitely a walk. I was also reminded of a now banned member (VDGM) who posted in that thread. That one is NOT missed, by me at least.
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@boulderjohn
@Ken Kurtis
I have been absent from this board for several days
Appreciate your prompt and certainly complete replies. I apologize for not immediately responding
Certainly is an eye opener … domino effect and lack of training
I was a member of the board at that time. I was diving many years before when event such as this occurred on what seemed like a regular basis, so I generally avoid reading or commenting on fatalities.
The current thread is interesting- an individual who is not a waterman who cant pass a swim test and wants to become a "Dive Master" Yet --they can't swim ! And so many have posted how to avoid the swims requirement
With this attitude prevailing we are only buying into future disasters- Dive Masters who cant swim !
SDM
Ken
In my genealogical l research I recently discovered a long lost forgotten ancestor named Kurtis who fought in the war of 1812..Kurtis ? Could it be??? sdm
@Ken Kurtis
I have been absent from this board for several days
Appreciate your prompt and certainly complete replies. I apologize for not immediately responding
Certainly is an eye opener … domino effect and lack of training
I was a member of the board at that time. I was diving many years before when event such as this occurred on what seemed like a regular basis, so I generally avoid reading or commenting on fatalities.
The current thread is interesting- an individual who is not a waterman who cant pass a swim test and wants to become a "Dive Master" Yet --they can't swim ! And so many have posted how to avoid the swims requirement
With this attitude prevailing we are only buying into future disasters- Dive Masters who cant swim !
SDM
Ken
In my genealogical l research I recently discovered a long lost forgotten ancestor named Kurtis who fought in the war of 1812..Kurtis ? Could it be??? sdm
I am not altogether sure if the issue is whether the DM candidate can swim (although that is a legitimate concern in general ). Rather, because the swims are timed, and you need to move somewhat expeditiously in order to get a particular time, that earns specific points toward the required 15, some candidates struggle.
In the case that boulderjohn referenced, my understanding of the event is that it wasn't so much a matter of whether the DM could swim, or even swim fast. Rather, the DM apparently entered the water completely unprepared to assist a diver in distress, and probably did a (very) poor job when he reached the unfortunate victim. That is a matter of DM training, preparedness, competence, and confidence, not ability to swim.
I recall my DM class, and feeling the same stress as the OP. I (thought I) was a good swimmer - I grew up on the VA coast, swam a lot, etc. But, I never swam for time, and I therefore didn't have an optimal time technique. I just swam, I didn't worry about pacing myself for a distance. And, when I did the 15 minute survival float the first time, I didn't get a 5 - because I thought I was supposed to hold not just my hands above water, but my arms up in the air. When I realized that the performance requirements say only that the hands need to be above water, I did just fine. The first time I did the Tired Diver Tow, I started out like the often cited 'house afire' and ran out of gas 3/4 of the way through. What would have been a 5 if I could have completed the tow at the same pace I started with, turned into a 2 as I crossed the line like a very slow (and winded) land turtle.
To the OP: physically fit DMCs, who can certainly swim but aren't used to swimming timed laps, or swimming for time, may struggle at first to meet the point requirements. You are not alone. It is also not a 'wash out' requirement, that you can only try once. You can try several times to 'get it right'.
For the 15 minute water tread - relax, minimize your motion, use your inherent buoyancy to stay afloat. As long as your nose is above water, you can breathe. Lie on your back if you want to. When you hit 12 minutes, put your HANDS (only) above the surface, not your whole arm, not even just your forearm. For the timed swims, practice in a pool to see what the pace feels like that will get you a 4 or 5. Time yourself by lap. Manage your early pace, to save energy for the last 1-2 laps. If you get a 5 on the tread, a 4 on one of the swims, and two 3's, you have your 15 points, before even moving to the 5th exercise.
Now, a personal anecdote: as a diver I swim, underwater, A LOT. But, I also frog kick most of the time, I swim s-l-o-w-l-y, to enjoy myself, to conserve gas, to save energy. Oh, and by the way, when I swim underwater, I wear big things on my feet, called fins! And, I NEVER use my hands to swim, it is a matter of pride to control my propulsion, and direction, with only my legs. Several years ago, I decided to do a sprint triathalon with two of my adult children - a swim, a bicycle ride, a run. My goal - finish the course, not worry about time. I knew my running time would be awful - I just don't run anymore. But, I also figured my bike time would be very good (it was), and my swim time would be respectable. We were batched in groups of 20 participants for the swim (the first event), and the groups were started 5 minutes apart. I was pumped. My group got in the water and started swimming. And, I felt like I was going nowhere fast. I was just not getting much propulsion, from my arms which I actively DO NOT USE while diving, or from my feet, which seemed to be useless without those big fin things. By the time I finished, I was not only the last one in my group to reach the other side of the sound, I had been passed by everyone in the group immediately behind me, most of the swimmers in the group two starts behind me, and even one person in a group 3 starts (15 minutes) behind me!
As a scuba Instructor, I can swim, I can swim pretty well, better than most. But, I sure won't set any speed records.
). Rather, because the swims are timed, and you need to move somewhat expeditiously in order to get a particular time, that earns specific points toward the required 15, some candidates struggle.In the case that boulderjohn referenced, my understanding of the event is that it wasn't so much a matter of whether the DM could swim, or even swim fast. Rather, the DM apparently entered the water completely unprepared to assist a diver in distress, and probably did a (very) poor job when he reached the unfortunate victim. That is a matter of DM training, preparedness, competence, and confidence, not ability to swim.
I recall my DM class, and feeling the same stress as the OP. I (thought I) was a good swimmer - I grew up on the VA coast, swam a lot, etc. But, I never swam for time, and I therefore didn't have an optimal time technique. I just swam, I didn't worry about pacing myself for a distance. And, when I did the 15 minute survival float the first time, I didn't get a 5 - because I thought I was supposed to hold not just my hands above water, but my arms up in the air.
When I realized that the performance requirements say only that the hands need to be above water, I did just fine. The first time I did the Tired Diver Tow, I started out like the often cited 'house afire' and ran out of gas 3/4 of the way through. What would have been a 5 if I could have completed the tow at the same pace I started with, turned into a 2 as I crossed the line like a very slow (and winded) land turtle.To the OP: physically fit DMCs, who can certainly swim but aren't used to swimming timed laps, or swimming for time, may struggle at first to meet the point requirements. You are not alone. It is also not a 'wash out' requirement, that you can only try once. You can try several times to 'get it right'.
For the 15 minute water tread - relax, minimize your motion, use your inherent buoyancy to stay afloat. As long as your nose is above water, you can breathe.
Lie on your back if you want to. When you hit 12 minutes, put your HANDS (only) above the surface, not your whole arm, not even just your forearm. For the timed swims, practice in a pool to see what the pace feels like that will get you a 4 or 5. Time yourself by lap. Manage your early pace, to save energy for the last 1-2 laps. If you get a 5 on the tread, a 4 on one of the swims, and two 3's, you have your 15 points, before even moving to the 5th exercise.Now, a personal anecdote: as a diver I swim, underwater, A LOT. But, I also frog kick most of the time, I swim s-l-o-w-l-y, to enjoy myself, to conserve gas, to save energy. Oh, and by the way, when I swim underwater, I wear big things on my feet, called fins! And, I NEVER use my hands to swim, it is a matter of pride to control my propulsion, and direction, with only my legs. Several years ago, I decided to do a sprint triathalon with two of my adult children - a swim, a bicycle ride, a run. My goal - finish the course, not worry about time. I knew my running time would be awful - I just don't run anymore. But, I also figured my bike time would be very good (it was), and my swim time would be respectable. We were batched in groups of 20 participants for the swim (the first event), and the groups were started 5 minutes apart. I was pumped. My group got in the water and started swimming. And, I felt like I was going nowhere fast. I was just not getting much propulsion, from my arms which I actively DO NOT USE while diving, or from my feet, which seemed to be useless without those big fin things. By the time I finished, I was not only the last one in my group to reach the other side of the sound, I had been passed by everyone in the group immediately behind me, most of the swimmers in the group two starts behind me, and even one person in a group 3 starts (15 minutes) behind me!
As a scuba Instructor, I can swim, I can swim pretty well, better than most. But, I sure won't set any speed records.
He certainly did not have the ability to dive down and catch a man who sank beneath the surface within arm's reach of him. In the contrasting story I told, the DM jumped off the boat, swam to where a man sank beneath the waves, dived down, and caught up with him well below the surface.
Addicted2H2O
Contributor
I think for me, I'm more concerned about the swim because it's timed, but also because it's a pass/fail scenario. For SDI, there is no point system. You either complete the swim(s) within the specified time or you get to start over and keep trying until you do. So I can't botch the swim but do well on every other skill for the course and pass. If I don't complete the swim(s) in the 10 minute limit for the 400 and 17 minute limit for the 800 fin kick, I don't pass and don't get to call myself a DM until I do. So it's difficult to not let that get into my head. I can swim. And for my size and having never done so competitively, I think I swim quite well and fairly quickly at that. But this is about not only speed but also endurance. I can swim 400 yards. But I'm not 100% certain I can do it in 10 minutes and without stopping. I guess we'll see......
To add to this....I personally don't think my ability or lack thereof to be able to swim that distance at that pace makes me a bad DM. I mean let's be rational here....if you're having to free swim 400y (nearly 1/4 mile) to reach a distressed diver......10 minutes is going to be too slow. And chances are you're going to at least slap fins on your feet before you ever splash into the water....maybe a mask and snorkel too. Because you're going to want to breathe as much as you can and you're certainly going to need your vision by the time you get to said diver because in 10 minutes, it's highly probable that they're going to have dipped beneath the surface and without being able to see clearly underwater, your chances of finding them are seriously diminished. Maybe I'm looking at it all wrong, but this is how I see it. Doesn't mean I won't do my damnedest to complete the swims in the time allotted. I want very much to be a dive master. And I know full well that I'm capable of being a good one. If I didn't, I wouldn't have spent my hard earned money and precious time on the course.
To add to this....I personally don't think my ability or lack thereof to be able to swim that distance at that pace makes me a bad DM. I mean let's be rational here....if you're having to free swim 400y (nearly 1/4 mile) to reach a distressed diver......10 minutes is going to be too slow. And chances are you're going to at least slap fins on your feet before you ever splash into the water....maybe a mask and snorkel too. Because you're going to want to breathe as much as you can and you're certainly going to need your vision by the time you get to said diver because in 10 minutes, it's highly probable that they're going to have dipped beneath the surface and without being able to see clearly underwater, your chances of finding them are seriously diminished. Maybe I'm looking at it all wrong, but this is how I see it. Doesn't mean I won't do my damnedest to complete the swims in the time allotted. I want very much to be a dive master. And I know full well that I'm capable of being a good one. If I didn't, I wouldn't have spent my hard earned money and precious time on the course.
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