Dive instructor shot by roatan resort owner

[Jax]

Ah . . . I displayed my ignorance in that statement . . .

 

[beautybelow]

Well, it's not that way with all live aboards, but they all support the local economy in one way or another. Same as a resort or hotel, in most cases they are owned by and profited by outside interests.

 

[shortdivemedic]

Jax
Sign me up when you get that Liveaboard running in Arizonia. Not sure about the diving but we will have a good time anyway

Cheers
Michael

 

[Jax]

Jax
Sign me up when you get that Liveaboard running in Arizonia. Not sure about the diving but we will have a good time anyway

Cheers
Michael

Actually, there is one that runs in the Sea of Cortez, and I hear there is another run by word-of-mouth - people in San Carlos running their sailboat occasionally as a liveaboard, so they take it off of their taxes and get it to pay for itself, a little.

 

[ktomlinson]

Jax have I missed something that you would call a pattern, or are you basing your statements that roatan isn't taking care of business on this singular incident?

 

[Jax]

Good question - when the subject first came up, there were postings to trip advisor and other sites where people talked about the "crazy lady" going off on customers and throwing them out of their rooms. I kept following the trail, and it seems this pair has been beyond the pale for a long, long time (ten years, AFAIR).

That says to me, "a local with a lot of power, can't be touched by common man's rules". (Sort of like how Sandusky got away with his sch!t for so long - "You just don't say no to the coach")

If there is one thing I have learned in my travels, do not bump against the "local power".

And, if the local government turns a blind eye to such things . . . . not a good place to be as an outsider.


How is it, this crazy woman can attack someone for parking their bike on the road? Really? And then her husband comes wielding a board like a sword of righteousness? And people comment that, "yeah, they are like that"

Really? Nah. Don't want to be where such things are tolerated.

 

[Mike]

Scratching Roatan off your dive destination list for reasons of crime to me is something sorry to hear. Everybody has to make their own judgement call on safety. After all there are people who go on cruise ships who won't get off at any ports of call because they are scared of being victims of crime. Who's to judge them? There are people who won't go on vacation outside the USAs borders because of fear of crime, again, that's their choice.

However, scratching Roatan off your list due to fear of crime to me is similar to somebody not getting off a cruise ship, but I'm not going to judge you for it, you have to make your own decisions. Is it disturbing this incident in West End? Sure it is, but is it a deal killer? Well, I guess if you were planning on staying in West End at the boarding house/hotel those nut jobs run, I'd think twice about that. But as for staying any place else? Come on, it's a big island and you don't even have to venture near the town of West End the whole time you're there, not to mention the reality is I'd say 95% of tourists, especially divers don't even leave their resort in the first place. Writing off Roatan over this is like somebody you know who is scared to go in the ocean ever because of fear of sharks, but hey, that's their loss too.

For those who do and will explore like myself, I'm not worried really at all, I'll be in West End for certain, drinking and eating, smoking cigars if the cigar bar is still there, hanging at the bars, eating dinner at that steak house place... etc... however, I won't be hanging around anywhere near the nut jobs locale.

I'm not excited that these nuts are there in West End and what they did, I hope that justice is served. But Roatan equals West Bay Beach, one of the nicest beaches in the Caribbean, Roatan equals Fantasy Island Dive Resort one of the more famous dive, dive, dive places you can stay. Roatan also equals Anthony's Key Resort and many others, the island is an amazing destination, the diving is awesome, the island is tropical like a version of Giligans Island, it's easy to get around and you can easily never step 6 inches off your resort the whole time, or you can explore the island with no fears greater then you would have anywhere else. It's going to take a whole lot more than this nut job who occupies .00000001% of geography of Roatan to keep me away. Again, to me avoiding the entire island of Roatan over these 2 is about the same as avoiding going diving in Australia because they have box jelly fish there. Another thing to consider, this is a cruise ship island, need we say more about safety? Need we say more about this issue and how if it was a real issue their would be fall out with the cruise ships?

Perspective can be an amazing thing. How about Jamaica? Talk about a gun toting, drug running, drug lord, gang infested murder capital and how many tourists visit that place every year? Talk about a place out of control! And you'd scratch off sleepy Roatan? Kind of silly to me, but it's not going to stop me from my 10 day vacation on West Bay, diving my ass off and exploring and bumming around the island again in about a week!

If you're down there look me up, if you're too scared to go, well, that's okay too, it's your loss. But as said there are plenty of places to go diving. But their is only one of each of them, just like there is only one Roatan, and man I can't wait to get there.

 

[Doc]

Jax
Sign me up when you get that Liveaboard running in Arizonia. Not sure about the diving but we will have a good time anyway

All that beach and no Ocean.

I remember that! Quite humorous!

Well, I guess I could take a liveaboard around there . . . . oh, wait, that won't be spending any money locally, huh? :blinking:

I'm not saying I would never go to Roatan; I'm saying I won't go soon. I'll watch how the case settles out, and do a lot more research before I consider it.

However, I'm an opinionated cuss, and not afraid to state it. How many people may have a reaction like mine, and simply never say so? Marketers have some sort of ratio . . . For every customer that expresses an opinion, there are x others that also hold it but won't state it.

Yep- that survey was funny and telling.

We all have our fears and lines that we won't cross, it's in our DNA. Darwin and all of that.

When talking about any dive destination (and we go off for 5 weeks each year diving around this planet), I try to avoid sensationalism and being a purveyor of un-needed fear. I will say that certain places, there is absolutely no reason to bother to expose yourself to them!

A great example is Bonaire. People fret endlessly over the property crime... the break-ins to your parked vehicle while on a shore dive. Just because Bonaire offers the unique access to shore diving... they get the rap for a crime that would occur anywhere else... if there was shore diving on any other island. Bonaire diving has taken a huge hit from the long-ago hurricane, but is still appealing. If you go, all you have to do is leave your windows rolled down and don't leave anything valuable in the car. How hard is that? But people like to worry.

We all know about Aruba, right? Yes, there are people who still claim to go there for the marginal diving, but the real reason they go there is to dispose of their un-wanted brides or their cute blonde daughters.

I often mention Belize City being in that category, also quick to add the garden spots of Honduras which include SanPedro Sula and Tegucigalpa. The difference is that many, many more people are likely to consider going wandering in Belize City because of air connections. None of them are well advised. The Belize Zoo? That sounds interesting. It is dismal and depressing. However... The Barrier Islands, the islands that we think of as "Belize"? No worries~ and great diving.

Galapagos divers often overnight in Quito or Guayaquil. Stay to the tourist areas, in the daylight, and be very alert. These are twitchy cities. Upon arrival in the Galapagos... all worries disappear, enjoy the Hammerheads... you might even notice the Mobulas, maybe not.

We used to dive Los Roques off of the Venezualan coast quite often. The overnight near the airport was a really bad idea, the cab ride 20 miles to the isolated resort was in itself an interesting trip. Los Roques was an idyllic paradise... once you got there.

On Roatan, if you must worry about negative interactions with nasty people, the rules are the same wherever you might go on this planet... Do not interact with locals in regards to drinking, dancing with their women, or in a business transaction other than buying a woven hammock or wooden monkey.

A few years ago, posters on SB went all looney over a shooting on the street in front of AKR. It quickly evolved into a shooting at AKR. Take a breath everybody. It was a long standing feud between two locals, one was an employee. Next? The sky-is-falling crowd enjoyed going into a tail-spin over everything from the earthquake to the "drug wars", and adding in a protest over the power company for a little "shock". (sorry, I couldn't help it)

Random physical violence is very rare, even in New York City. As a wise man once told me, "Friends kill friends". There likely is a pre-established association that evolves into the altercation. The Bogey Man is rarer than Sasquatch.

On Roatan, if this is your personal fear, select an AI resort that is as far afield from the population centers as possible. These centers are West End, Coxen Hole and French Harbor. (in 2011) I would not walk around Coxen Hole or French Harbor after dark- why? There is nothing there for me or any tourist. You complete the equation.... If a tourist is there, he must be looking for ________. (And it is available)

You can find fairly isolated AI's on West Bay (Henry Morgen, etc), somewhat remote properties further East (Anthony Key, Fantasy, Turquoise and Media Luna). Understand that simply being off the main island of Roatan on a small islet does not security make. If the resorts allow non-guests to come and go, this can and has created issues, albeit minor. Further afield would be Reef House Resort which is a very isolated property on a small shared cay where everyone who comes and goes is known. Then the ultimate in isolation, the resorts that have their own 100% private island- that would be Barefoot Key (just offshore from French Harbour) and CoCoView.

Although I live in Chicago, I have spent a whole lot of time on Roatan, even having worked for their government upon occasion. I have spent a lot of time all over the Caribbean and worldwide dive resorts. Some locations lend themselves well to "island flavor" or "local color". Roatan, sorry to say, has as much heritage or soul (at least what is available to the tourist) as EPCOT center. Go there to relax and dive. There really is no "island culture", at least nothing with any DNA, heritage or traceable lineage past the introduction of cell-phones and a couple of FM radio stations. The place is quickly looking like Twitty City. Go there to dive.

Trouble may be found anywhere you go. You can be really smart and find trouble, you can really be stupid and find it as well.

 

[Laurie S.]

Actually, there is one that runs in the Sea of Cortez, and I hear there is another run by word-of-mouth - people in San Carlos running their sailboat occasionally as a liveaboard, so they take it off of their taxes and get it to pay for itself, a little.

My friend, Johan Broere, owns a 48-foot catamaran in San Carlos. He has spent more than a year trying to get the permit to use it for a liveaboard, honeymoon cruises, etc. I think he's getting closer, but it's taking forever because he refuses to pay the mordida. It's an awesome boat and he and his wife live on it now, so I guess it is a liveaboard.

 

[vladimir]

Random physical violence is very rare, even in New York City.

New York City is probably* the safest large city in the United States. Significantly safer than Chicago.

If you go to NYC, stay out of about half of Brooklyn (the Heights, Park Slope, and some hipster neighborhoods excepted), all of the Bronx and Queens (mostly unsafe, and no reason to go, except to Yankee games), all of Staten Island (mostly safe, but no reason to go), stay south of 96 Street in Manhattan, and stay off the subways and you'll enjoy America's safest large city.

If you go to Roatan, I guess, avoid that guy who's shooting people.


*definitely, if we could trust the police statistics.