Dive Goes Bad Fast

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I see alot of great suggestions posted here. I haven't been in your shoes, hopefully i won't but anything can happen just as It did to you. It sounds like you didn't panic and that you both remained pretty calm. The fact you didn't pay enough attention that you were ascending does make sense to me. For as many "right things" could have been done here , there are far worse things that could have happened as well. I see you and your dive buddy practiced a bit and did a few dives to feel each other out, that was a good thing to do. That in this case probably stop alot worse things from happening. Practice practice they say and thats right. I am a new diver as well, and I will always keep up my skills no matter what people say. A lesson learned. I will be in kingston in two weeks. I have 6 dives over two days and will be doing a few deeper than before dives as well. Thanks for sharing your story because i truly believe we need to be reminded of certain situations and I have learned something by reading your story. Take care and dive well.
 
Just a few thoughts and comments from an experienced coldwater diver in the hope that it will provoke some serious discussion between you and your buddy.

Firstly, congrats on getting back okay.

Yes, it is advisable to have sealed regs when diving in cold water. However, even sealed regs can malfunction.
Question - on your dive did either or both of you stick your reg in your mouth before entering the water?
It is very wise to wait until you are under the water before you take your first breath from your reg. This is to avoid the reg's "freezing up" at depth by your breathing in moisture that subsequently ices up, very often in the first stage, at colder depths.

Question - you say your buddy's reg was "studdering" - did he have his air valve turned on fully before the dive? If the valve is not fully turned on then it will not deliver air efficiently.

Interesting that your buddy's perceived solution to the freeflow was to seek escape to the surface.
He asks to share air - prompting a rescue scenario - but is unwilling to "submit" to the rescuer's request to return to the mooring line.
This is entirely understandable of course. How can he have full confidence in a buddy diver that has not been rescue-trained?

Many dual fatalities have occurred because of unsuccessful rescue attempts. One major contributor to tragedy is when the rescuer is denied the control needed to successfully carry out the rescue.
In your case your buddy was the "senior" and more experienced/qualified diver in the incident. He could have, and maybe should have, adopted the role of rescuer even though he was breathing your air.
Another major contributor to failed rescues is when the ascent begins too soon. That is before a comfortable breathing rhythm has been established.
If there is plenty air at hand, as there was in your situation, then use it! Take one minute, maybe holding on to that mast, to calm the breathing of both divers and exchange signals. Then, when buoyancy of both parties is neutral the ascent can begin.
An escape to the surface is often the wrong immediate choice.

The third diver's pony - kudos to the donor, but, yes, I would have to agree that it was unwise to accept what might have been a "rich mix" from an unknown source. Even though it is extremely unlikely, given the short breathing time allowed by the pony's capacity, that any toxicity issue would have occurred.

I would hasten to add that I believe you would have been better prepared to enjoy the 100ft dive had you done a couple of work-up dives beforehand.
In cold water the onset of narcosis can occur as shallow as 80ft, just enough to increase the stress factor.

Whenever you are surrounded by bubbles on an ascent you are passing them out.
Question - do you, and your buddy, use your drysuit only for buoyancy control, or your BC?
If either/both of you have different methodology here then it can only lead to confusion where buoyancy control is most vital - on the ascent.
Consider an agreed approach to this, in the light of recent dives, and find a method that allows ease of management.

Others have posted correctly on the freeflow issue. You will only have colder teeth should you continue to breathe from a freeflowing reg. The surplus gas can go out the side of your mouth.

Your diving future?

Please do not go down the route of "Gear for Fear" i.e. believing that the purchase of additional tanks/regs/etc. will alleviate any future worries and forego any problems.

Instead, think of ensuring that your current gear is up to scratch. Reg? If not - replace it. Keep the old one for the pool.

As to the psychological needs, I truly believe - following your recent experience - that both of you are are a much safer and, indeed, a more practically educated diving pair than heretofore.

Go out and re-live that incident with the preparedness that only raw experience can give!!


Safe Diving


Seadeuce
 
Another major contributor to failed rescues is when the ascent begins too soon. That is before a comfortable breathing rhythm has been established.
If there is plenty air at hand, as there was in your situation, then use it! Take one minute, maybe holding on to that mast, to calm the breathing of both divers and exchange signals. Then, when buoyancy of both parties is neutral the ascent can begin.
An escape to the surface is often the wrong immediate choice.

THIS is a beautiful paragraph, and I only wish that I had written it myself.
 
There are many excellent comments here. I have replied to my experiences with a freeflowing regulator. BTW I have a ScubaPro setup suitable for cold water dives since I live in the northeast. Even they will freeflow under the right conditions. The good news is that is the design, better to have flow than no flow. When it happened to me, as I said in other posts, I kept my regulator and continued to breathe from it as I made a calm ascent with my buddy, who actually had me in his grip. He was prepared to give me air if and when I needed it. As also was noted, 2 people breathing hard off of one setup could cause his gear to freeflow. I opted to use up my air knowing I would be OK. The other posters comments about waiting until you are under water (in cold) can reduce the chances of freeflow which is something I did not know at the time. We did a bit of a surface swim that day and being so excitied to 'get to diving' I was creating my own problems. But I learned from it which is what you have done.
 
I took my buddies Reg in to my shop last night. It turns out his reg does not have an environemntal seal and the cause of the free flow was very likely freezing up of the first stage. Additionally the tech noted that the cracking force on the second stage may have been set a little to high and as a result my buddy may have felt air starved at depth and overbreathed the reg. My buddy purchased an Oceanic GT3/CDX5 reg last night to replace the Mares Proton.

We are headding out to a local quarry on Sunday to test the new gear and do some more practice (especially on ascents sharing air and on breating off free flowing regs. We will also hit mask clearing, maybe a shared air ascent with a mask off, etc.). The next open water dive will be a wreck in Oakville, Ontario at 60' with instructors present (probably in about 2 weeks). We think this is a good way to get back into the water.
 
Just a few thoughts and comments from an experienced coldwater diver in the hope that it will provoke some serious discussion between you and your buddy.

Firstly, congrats on getting back okay.

Yes, it is advisable to have sealed regs when diving in cold water. However, even sealed regs can malfunction.
Question - on your dive did either or both of you stick your reg in your mouth before entering the water?
It is very wise to wait until you are under the water before you take your first breath from your reg. This is to avoid the reg's "freezing up" at depth by your breathing in moisture that subsequently ices up, very often in the first stage, at colder depths.

Question - you say your buddy's reg was "studdering" - did he have his air valve turned on fully before the dive? If the valve is not fully turned on then it will not deliver air efficiently.

Interesting that your buddy's perceived solution to the freeflow was to seek escape to the surface.
He asks to share air - prompting a rescue scenario - but is unwilling to "submit" to the rescuer's request to return to the mooring line.
This is entirely understandable of course. How can he have full confidence in a buddy diver that has not been rescue-trained?

Many dual fatalities have occurred because of unsuccessful rescue attempts. One major contributor to tragedy is when the rescuer is denied the control needed to successfully carry out the rescue.
In your case your buddy was the "senior" and more experienced/qualified diver in the incident. He could have, and maybe should have, adopted the role of rescuer even though he was breathing your air.
Another major contributor to failed rescues is when the ascent begins too soon. That is before a comfortable breathing rhythm has been established.
If there is plenty air at hand, as there was in your situation, then use it! Take one minute, maybe holding on to that mast, to calm the breathing of both divers and exchange signals. Then, when buoyancy of both parties is neutral the ascent can begin.
An escape to the surface is often the wrong immediate choice.

The third diver's pony - kudos to the donor, but, yes, I would have to agree that it was unwise to accept what might have been a "rich mix" from an unknown source. Even though it is extremely unlikely, given the short breathing time allowed by the pony's capacity, that any toxicity issue would have occurred.

I would hasten to add that I believe you would have been better prepared to enjoy the 100ft dive had you done a couple of work-up dives beforehand.
In cold water the onset of narcosis can occur as shallow as 80ft, just enough to increase the stress factor.

Whenever you are surrounded by bubbles on an ascent you are passing them out.
Question - do you, and your buddy, use your drysuit only for buoyancy control, or your BC?
If either/both of you have different methodology here then it can only lead to confusion where buoyancy control is most vital - on the ascent.
Consider an agreed approach to this, in the light of recent dives, and find a method that allows ease of management.

Others have posted correctly on the freeflow issue. You will only have colder teeth should you continue to breathe from a freeflowing reg. The surplus gas can go out the side of your mouth.

Your diving future?

Please do not go down the route of "Gear for Fear" i.e. believing that the purchase of additional tanks/regs/etc. will alleviate any future worries and forego any problems.

Instead, think of ensuring that your current gear is up to scratch. Reg? If not - replace it. Keep the old one for the pool.

As to the psychological needs, I truly believe - following your recent experience - that both of you are are a much safer and, indeed, a more practically educated diving pair than heretofore.

Go out and re-live that incident with the preparedness that only raw experience can give!!


Safe Diving


Seadeuce


Seadeuce.
We did 4 work up dives. One in the pool practicing shared air ascents, mask clearing, breathing of a free flow etc etc. One at a quarry, one at a wreck and one at my cottage. Unfortunately the depest we got on the work up dives was about 40'. The dives at the quarry, wreck and cottage were in water of similar temparture to the 100' dive and in worse visibility. I would have liked it to been in 60' to 80' prior to the 100' dive but we felt (maybe mistakenly that we had prepared for the dive) that we had worked up to this dive.

My buddies air was on full, I checked it before we went in the water.

The studdering was likely the first stage freezing up or a little to high cracking force on the second stage (see my other post).

I use my drysuit inflator to take the squeeze off and then the BC for bouyancy control on the bottom (I try to keep as little air as possible in the drysuit as it is difficult to vent quickly). I think our ascent speed escaped us because of the second emergency (out of air), we had actually practiced shared air ascents in the pool and had been sucessful at it. We need to do more practice so that we can switch regs while dumping air. Also because I gave my buddy my primary I was changing to my alternate and was not watching my bouyancy during the second emergency. In the future will donate my alternate next time (I just put a longer hosed alternate on my gear yesterday) such that I do not have to take the time to swich regs and will be better able to dump air.

Thanks for your input. I am glad to have survived the incident unscathed (other than my confidence) and have learned alot. We will continue to practice to improve our skills so that in anouther situation we will not have the rapid ascent and will take more time at the bottom to get ready for the ascent!!
 
Perhaps the entire cause of the free flow was simply the reg, but people (especially here on SB) are quick to bash regs that are not Scuba Pro, Atomics, or Apeks.

That's not true - I'll bash Scubapro and Atomics too :D
 
maybe a shared air ascent with a mask off, etc

If I may suggest,

First get stable and face down in about 1-1/2 to 2' of water. Get on your knees to see if you can get your head out of the drink. Get back down, remove mask underwater, hands together behind you, (overcome the deathgrip on your mask, just let it go) and breathe until you are under 14 breaths per minute (buddy timing you). Controlled inhale, nice long exhale -sounds easy. Tap on shoulder, switch places. Move on from there, finding and replacing mask etc. Work as a team, develop as a team.
 
Seadeuce.
We did 4 work up dives. One in the pool practicing shared air ascents, mask clearing, breathing of a free flow etc etc. One at a quarry, one at a wreck and one at my cottage. Unfortunately the depest we got on the work up dives was about 40'. The dives at the quarry, wreck and cottage were in water of similar temparture to the 100' dive and in worse visibility. I would have liked it to been in 60' to 80' prior to the 100' dive but we felt (maybe mistakenly that we had prepared for the dive) that we had worked up to this dive.


Good work there, but, as you are aware, gradual work-up depth is more advantageous with tolerance of narcosis.

My buddies air was on full, I checked it before we went in the water.
The studdering was likely the first stage freezing up or a little to high cracking force on the second stage (see my other post).

No problems with the valve so

I use my drysuit inflator to take the squeeze off and then the BC for bouyancy control on the bottom (I try to keep as little air as possible in the drysuit as it is difficult to vent quickly).

This is the recommended practice, but it increases task-loading. Imagine trying to vent four buoyancy devices (2 x Drysuits + 2 x BCs) if you had an unconscious buddy! Impossible!!


In the future will donate my alternate next time (I just put a longer hosed alternate on my gear yesterday) such that I do not have to take the time to swich regs and will be better able to dump air.

But ALWAYS be prepared for the out-of-air buddy to snatch your primary, with little notice given. You MUST be able to grab your alternate for yourself, at a moment's notice.

Thanks for your input. I am glad to have survived the incident unscathed (other than my confidence) and have learned alot. We will continue to practice to improve our skills so that in anouther situation we will not have the rapid ascent and will take more time at the bottom to get ready for the ascent!!


Always glad to offer a qualified opinion.
Reading between the lines of your text, I like the way you think. A thinking diver is a safer diver.

You'll do well.



Stay Wet


Seadeuce
 

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