Dive flag ignorance

[lowviz]

Dear sir,

You suspect correctly. I neither want nor need a dive flag on all of my dives. On rare occasion I do, but it should be my choice.

A dive flag is both a surface hazard, entanglement hazard, and an impediment to trim and buoyancy. It is dictated by officials who need to show that something was done to prevent further accidents. Usually, such legislation follows a particularly public accident.

Let's make it optional, like helmet laws.

 

[Sam Miller III]

Then if a boat strikes an fatally injures you
the boat operator is held harmless since YOU did not have a dive flag displayed

Sounds logical

sdm

By the way have you ever seen a picture of a person struck by a boat.?..or do you know any one struck by a boat ?

 

[Chip Elliott]

I have known what a dive flag is since at least 1960.

I don't see the big deal. If you are diving, dive with a flag, better yet, dive with the USA/Canada version and the International Verson.

 

[lowviz]

Then if a boat strikes an fatally injures you
the boat operator is held harmless since YOU did not have a dive flag displayed ...//...

Yes, and that is entirely reasonable.

... By the way have you ever seen a picture of a person struck by a boat.?..or do you know any one struck by a boat ?

I was in the water in the eelgrass beds in the "Texas Riveria" when a Sunday boater bee-lined through Tim O'Leary's group. Ask him. I'll bet Tim still has that tank, most impressive. So was the look on the kid's face. Pictures of the horrific wounds that a propeller will produce are easy to come by. So are pics of motorcycle accidents.

So, same argument for motorcycle helmets. Do you advocate a nanny state who keeps us all safe? Easy, ban diving entirely.

 

[Sam Miller III]

Chip, (How do we properly address you as a priest ?)

I agree --I think?
Do you recall when the dive flag came in to existence as red & white recognized flag of recreational diving ?
Do you know any one struck by a boat ? or have you seen pictures of any one struck by a boat?
just wondering

sdm

 

[Chip Elliott]

Sam, call me whatever you like, except late for dinner! JK

We, we agree. I think we need to take responsibility for doing what WE can to make our sport safer. Having a flag(s) out is just one way. And if someone ignores it, it could turn into a good teaching point. I think it would help to put a magnetic sticker on the back of your car as well. People just might ask "what is that flag for?"

As to your other questions, I am pretty sure the flag came into existence in the mid to late 1950's. I have read the history online somewhere. As to your second question, yes, unfortunately I have. The first time is at the lake my family and I go to in Canada every year. A "speed boat," as we like to call them, was coming around the end of peninsula and there was a father and son fishing in a 16 foot Lund aluminum boat. The 1st boat went right over the top of that fishing boat, knocked the father out of the boat but "ran over" the boy whose leg and buttocks got lacerated by the propellor. I was about 200 yards away in my boat fishing so went over to help. Others came over and started tending to the boy (about 12 or 13 I would imagine.) It was really hard to stop the bleeding because of the pattern of the lacerations, but luckily one of the folks who witnessed and reacted to it was an ER doc! We just did what he said, mostly used our "fish rags" to stuff the wounds and hold pressure. Both survived.

The 2nd time I was called in because I was a priest. A boy was swimming off-shore and a (drunk) boat driver ran right over him. I was called to the scene to give last rites.

 

[Sam Miller III]

chip
Very sobering experience ...

Certainly a learning experience ..T

Thank you for sharing

S

 

[Divegoose]

As I mentioned in my thread on dive separation, we do not use dive flags when we dive. I brought my flag and line to the first dive I went to when I moved to the island, and was told that flags are not used (except when classes are being held).

I was doing a lake dive once, and brought my flag and line with me. One of the divers volunteered to tow the flag, so I explained to him how it operates - basically let out line when you feel tension, and take up line when you have a lot of slack. Imagine my surprise when we were at about 60 feet, and I looked over to see the diver towing the flag about 15 feet behind him. Not much good when the flag is submerged about 50 feet below the surface.

When I was working for a shop in Alberta, we did all of the checkout dives on a local lake. We would put out a pattern of flags marking the area we were using. The boaters and water skiers would use them as a slalom course. As I correctly predicted, one day a diver who was in the process of setting out the flags was struck and killed by a boater.

We had done our best to educate the local boaters. I believe we had posters at the local marina explaining what dive flags were, and I know we had articles in the local papers explaining what they were. All to no avail.

If it is a legislated requirement to fly a flag while diving, by all means do so. If it is not a legal requirement, then I believe the decision to fly a flag is best left to the individual diver(s) and their knowledge of the dive site.

Dive safe

Divegoose

 

[BRT]

I lost a cousin I was very close to when I was 10. Boat went through the swimming area and killed him. I remember the undertaker asking our mothers to let us touch his hands if we wanted to but not his heavily reconstructed face. I would never tow a dive flag if it wasn't required and I believe I would just avoid diving that place. Too attractive. If forced to come up in a boating area I put up my SMB and hope for the best.