Dive Computers & O/W

[Rick Murchison]

If a diver is diving "recreationally" only - and is willing to abort the current dive, and stop diving for 24 hours in the event of a computer malfunction, and not dive again until equipped with an operational computer, then I agree with Bret Gilliam - there is no need for that diver to know how to use dive tables. If one isn't willing to abide by these three restrictions absolutely, then the ability to use tables is a hard requirement.
I believe that we will see all the agencies going to a "no tables" curriculum for basic OW in the near future. As for PADI's "tech" program, as I have mentioned earlier, they're likely to co-opt the "tech" term and we'll have to come up with something else to describe what we call "technical" diving today. TDI and IANTD should be thinking of name changes already, 'cause PADI will call their program "tech" over any and all protestations to the contrary.
Rick

 

[Remora]

Lots of discussion on this one!

Lots of variation on the theme as well.
First things first in the affliation I teach for (PADI) yes you are required to learn and master the tables. I say master because somewhere early on in the thread someone said the "pass" mark is 75%, literally this is correct but PADI standards also say that every student must master the subj by having every wrong answer explained in detail. I do this by first going over the exam with each student then gathering all wrong answers and administer them again during O/W certs. BTW, unless a student comes with a computer we use the tables to log the dives.

Having said that I do not discourage but encourage the use of computers, as they more accuratley account for your nitrogen buildup by monitoring your exact depth for the exact time of exposure not to mention in the integrated models accounting for cold and overexertion. IE you are not penalized for a square dive profile.

As far as comparing tables and PG's from one table to the next, forget it it means nothing, hence apples and oranges. Each table is set up differently. One may use a 60 tissue compartment wash out model and another 120. The same holds true from computer to computer different makes use different decompression models thereby having one a little more aggressive than the other.

We dive here (tech) with computers and bottom timers (yes can be a watch) but normally a Mares/OMS dedicated bottom timer for back-up. We first figure out our profiles (using tables) and accelerated deco based on the mix we will carry (3 profiles in the event of problems) If the computer should crap out due to Mr Murphy we can go to bottom timer and already figured out profiles on our slates. Back-up to the back-up bottom timer? yep another bottom timer.

So do divers need to retain the knowledge of table use IMHO definitley. Should computers be encouraged at the O/W level IMHO definitley. Of course there are divers out there that once a computer is purchased will forget the tables, I for one would rather go into a situation with all the info rather staking my life on one source.

 

[scubanole]

I was certified SSI in aug of 2000. I have only made s dives total so I am very inexperienced. In our class the instructor did not teach computers and we did learn how to use the tables. On our check out dives we used the tables but I felt we pushed the limits of the tables, on the dives of the boat, the spring dives were well within limits. The instructor used a computer on the dives while us students used analog and some students did not have a depth guage(which made no since to me), I had one my buddy did not.

I feel I am effeincent(sp) with the tables. I hope to get a computer soon.

 

[Remora]

Arrrghh

No depth gauge!! Talk about staring off on the wrong fin! Please ensure you are always properly kitted prior to diving , remember the life you save may be your own!

 

[Rick Murchison]

Lest there be any doubt, SSI *requires* that each diver carry a depth gauge and a timing device. If you or anyone else ostensibly in a program from SSI was allowed to dive without both then that instructor was remiss.
Rick

 

[Iguana Don]

Rick,
In response to your post:

Originally posted by Rick Murchison
I believe that we will see all the agencies going to a "no tables" curriculum for basic OW in the near future. Rick

This is probably coming sooner than we think or want.

How many instructors are prepared for this? Would you certify somebody that can't use the tables?

I hate to sound "Gloom & Doom" but until the computer manufacturers can come up with a guarantee, then we are just hanging ourselves out there at the mercy of the big buck "Pay And Dive Immediately" organizations.

Maybe the time and climate is right for a new certification agency, one that will teach you how to dive, without all the hype and hoopla. One that will teach you to dive and save your own life in an emergency.

"I see a bad moon arisin, I see trouble on the way....."

Don

 

[Walter]

"I believe that we will see all the agencies going to a "no tables" curriculum for basic OW in the near future."

You may believe this, I don't.

"Maybe the time and climate is right for a new certification agency, one that will teach you how to dive, without all the hype and hoopla. One that will teach you to dive and save your own life in an emergency."

There's no need for a new agency, the oldest agencies do this now.

Walter

 

[Bob]

I do think that dive computers are useful tools if one understands what the computer is telling him or her. This won't happen unless the diver understands his dive tables. As someone has pointed out in a previous post, a dive computer can give one a false sense of security, when in fact the diver may be exceeding his no deco limits. There's just no subsitute for solid training in the use of the dive tables A healthy dose of experience doesn't hurt either. Scuba Bob.

 

[Mario S Caner]

Hello again everyone, looks like this topic has taken off since I flew off to Dema. Well I'm back now and have a couple of more things to add here.

Computers are very advanced these days, moreso than most ppl realize. The average dive computer of today is more powerful than the first personal computers of yesteryear. A modern computer has diver programmable audible and visual alarms, downloadability and programmability from a PC and a host of other benefits like battery strength indicators, self diagnostic feauture and the benefit of being able to take into consideration factors like Work of Breathing rate, water temperature and Air Consumption Factors to further increase safety margins. How many of you build those factors into your table dives? I'll bet my Instructor C-Cards that it's not nearly enough of you.

Computer calculations are complex, they sample and crunch data many times over in a single minute to take into consideration, and take advantage of multi-level dive profiles. I would say that 95% of all dives conducted by recreational scuba divers are ML dives. The wheel is a table device, much better than the conventional tables, it's very easy to use, but it still can't hold a candle to a modern dive computer.

Perhaps I have these opinions and this comfort level because I have been through numerous training course's on the use and function of dive computers.

A watch will tell time but it can never do what a dive computer can do, unless it has the benefits of both. The Citizen Aqualand series watches are remarkably accurate and display info my dive computer doesn't until I download the data. For example my Citizen Aqualand Titanium Duplex displays time in, time out, dive time in min & sec, average depth, current depth & max depth and minimum water temp during the dive. All at the pushes of a couple of buttons after the dive.

The new Mosquito, Stinger and a host of other watches by a variety of other companies do even more, they also do decompression information.

Computer do exactly what the tables do and more. Much more. They can be and are used as dive planners. Instead od dealing with letter groups and following columns and flipping sides of a table.... you just look at numbers. The computer will tell you how deep and how long in a simple glance... dive after dive after dive. The computer won't get tired or make mistakes. It simply tells you objectively what you can and can't do.

Make no mistake, they are here to stay and will continue to improve and develop with leaps and bounds by the day.

 

[RC]

I agree Mario, computers have taken diving calculations to the next level. When I read up on the development of tables and I was suprise to find out how it was done. Granted they decided to error on the safe side which was a good approach. I must confess, I reacently got my 1st computer, my buddy had said that I'll never use a chart again and at first I didn't think so but in a way he was right. At first i would do a lot of double checking but it got old quick. My computer checks about 12 different parameters in seconds. Now that is deffinitly an improvment on "the old way"